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[bigrk Friend bigrkJoin date: February 2007Posts: 1425Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 39 Thanked: 45 times in 15 posts]

#236964

<em>@ruigato 37679 wrote:</em><blockquote>I also think you should go to 1 per month but upgrade the quality od the templates in terms of compatibility with components, cleaner code, seo, features like extra modules, etc.

I must give my second vote to this.</blockquote>

Make that a third!

[ShannonN Friend ShannonNJoin date: July 2006Posts: 1947Downloads:0Uploads:9 Thanks: 16 Thanked: 172 times in 49 posts]

#236975

bigrk;37680Make that a third!

I agree with my old mate bigrk on this issue of x templates per month, while I KNOW 2 per month is the incentive for all to join etc, $70 per annum for 24 templates plus access to 40 plus already made templates, works out at at around $1.09 US Dollars per template!!!

So whats the beef that “I joined for 2 templates per mth, I demand 2 per month” or I’ll throw myself on the ground bang my fists on the floor and have a hizzy fit? 😀

I feel in my opinion, the current trend to revamp a very recent template to what it “should” have been …. etc .. would be avoided by a 1 template per month in 1.013 and 1.5 version proper tutorials and docs is far better than 1 good template and one useless one each mth, and those who demand an extension or they’ll sue etc because they want 2 templates per mth etc listen to yourself please? ,,,,, @ less than $1.10 per template who cares !!!

just a few thoughts whether they suit you or not it’s an option
ShannonN

[teetide Friend teetideJoin date: December 2007Posts: 256Downloads:0Uploads:4 Thanks: 19 Thanked: 6 times in 1 posts]

#236979

<em>@ShannonN 37700 wrote:</em><blockquote>I agree with my old mate bigrk on this issue of x templates per month, while I KNOW 2 per month is the incentive for all to join etc, $70 per annum for 24 templates plus access to 40 plus already made templates, works out at at around $1.09 US Dollars per template!!!

So whats the beef that “I joined for 2 templates per mth, I demand 2 per month” or I’ll throw myself on the ground bang my fists on the floor and have a hizzy fit? 😀

I feel in my opinion, the current trend to revamp a very recent template to what it “should” have been …. etc .. would be avoided by a 1 template per month in 1.013 and 1.5 version proper tutorials and docs is far better than 1 good template and one useless one each mth, and those who demand an extension or they’ll sue etc because they want 2 templates per mth etc listen to yourself please? ,,,,, @ less than $1.10 per template who cares !!!

just a few thoughts whether they suit you or not it’s an option
ShannonN</blockquote>

I care ShannonN. I care big time.

What if they go to one template a month and there’s not a whiskers worth of difference in the quality? Then what? Based on some private experiences I’ve had with JA, I’m convinced that you won’t see a change in quality.

What JA should do is take the boatloads of money they’re making and hire the staff required to churn out the two quality templates per month and the decent support that we thought we signed up for.

At the very least, JA should assume the risk of this deal by showing us the kind of template quality we can expect BEFORE any change is made. Only then can we make an informed decision about this. Anything less and you’re being forced to make a blind trade. I don’t do blind trades.

Just my thoughts on your thoughts.

[ShannonN Friend ShannonNJoin date: July 2006Posts: 1947Downloads:0Uploads:9 Thanks: 16 Thanked: 172 times in 49 posts]

#237005

TeeTide;37704I care ShannonN. I care big time.

What if they go to one template a month and there’s not a whiskers worth of difference in the quality? Then what? Based on some private experiences I’ve had with JA, I’m convinced that you won’t see a change in quality.

What JA should do is take the boatloads of money they’re making and hire the staff required to churn out the two quality templates per month and the decent support that we thought we signed up for.

At the very least, JA should assume the risk of this deal by showing us the kind of template quality we can expect BEFORE any change is made. Only then can we make an informed decision about this. Anything less and you’re being forced to make a blind trade. I don’t do blind trades.

Just my thoughts on your thoughts.

I don’t entirely disagree with you and I have always said JA has the money from advance sales to hire competent staff as you suggest, I prolly think that with the current 40 something templates plus 12 minimum to come there is more than enough to chose from instead of demanding ja does multiple versions of teline or quillaja

just because they may suit what joe boggs needs at this particular time to fulfill a contract etc the templates can be modified reasonably easily if you have some knowledge and lets face it if you wanna play web designer you need to put time into learning css and how to change make modify graphics?

if you dont have the time hire someone you does have the time an experience and save frustration. Too many ppl want ja or (any template maker) to teach them photoshop/fireworks so they can change graphics, css and Joomla itself?
Which is not reasonable.

JA only make templates not a full turnkey solution, with the advent of the quickstart and fill in the blanks with your own info it is getting closer to a turnkey solution, but not the custom made stuff a lot of ppl are expecting/demanding.

Until ppl are prepared to spend 6 mths learning all about web design and what it means to do it or pay proper dollars for that custom turn key site there are always going to be grumbles from the public that want a new website for under 20 dollars. 🙂 Its a wonder they dont expect JA to provide free hosting for the 70 bucks 😉

[atout Friend atoutJoin date: January 2008Posts: 2Downloads:0Uploads:0]

#237011

Hello,
I also vote for 1 per month.
I want more quality (improvement organization of templates, their updates, information, …)
AND templates for virtuemart, CB, SOBI2, ….
Hervé

[one7media Friend one7mediaJoin date: June 2007Posts: 59Downloads:0Uploads:7 Thanks: 2 Thanked: 2 times in 1 posts]

#237835

<blockquote>$70 per annum for 24 templates plus access to 40 plus already made templates, works out at at around $1.09 US Dollars per template!!!</blockquote>

@shannonn

Technically you’re right…but let’s be honest, how many of those 40 plus already made templates are worthy enough to put on a J! 1.0.13+ or 1.5 site? And as already stated several times in this thread, it’s not the point. It’s just flat out irrelevant. The point is very clear…a change in service terms. Moving from 2 templates to 1 template per month is a change in JA’s terms of service and advertised club price. Legally, if someone wanted to pursue, have fun. Diving into an international grievance over 70 bucks is just plain stupid. You’ll waste more time and spend more money than if you joined JA’s 1 per month plan for decades. Morally, however, JA should recognize that this is a big reason why they can boast about over 14,000 members and growing and make it right. Although I have come to appreciate JA for other things, it is the reason I joined their club, and I know I’m not alone.

With all of that said, I would be OK with the “change” under the following circumstances:

1. JA gave us SOMETHING. Whether it was more domains to use templates on, an extended subscription, or what have you. Make it right by acknowledging that this changes the original terms people signed up under.

2. JA can GUARANTEE that they have the ability to carry out the reasons for this change.

As far as the poll/e-mail to members…it’s too black and white. You need more options in order to get a clear answer from your members, like:

1. I want this change if JA extends subscriptions for existing members

2. I want this change if better quality and support can be guaranteed

3. I want this change NOW

…so on and so forth.

IMO, the bottom line is that JA will do what they want to anyway, and it sounds like they already have their minds made up. The poll is simply to gauge the amount of business they will lose from it in non-renewals. I think that number will be larger than expected, and naturally, the next move would be to raise prices to compensate for that loss.

Either way, I wish JA the best of luck. Business can be tricky sometimes!

I forgot something…I wanted to comment on the requests for a Teline II. I don’t get it? You complain about “the same old thing” but yet in the same breath ask for “the same old thing”. How about making a request for something better than Teline, and not “Teline with a few mods”. I personally would like to see DIFFERENT TEMPLATES EVERY MONTH. I don’t want Teline II, Avian II, Fagus II, blah blah blah. It sounds like the modifications being requested on these templates is what JA plans to do with 1 template per month….more variations in 1 release. That sounds good to me.

Anyway…just my two cents. Don’t take it personally ; )

[MediaWorks Friend MediaWorksJoin date: September 2006Posts: 32Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 20]

#237844

The following is the answer of our lawyer about this subject.

If JA doesn’t respect the commercial agreement with its customers, the customers will be automatically authorized to use JA templates (the ones downloaded in the subscription period) in all the domains they want, since the licence agreement is null. If JA tried in this situation to pursue a customer legally (at least in EU) they would simply waste money.

That’s why we will probably see in the next months, after Avian II, Teline II, Fagus II… (and so on).

[Menalto Friend MenaltoJoin date: May 2007Posts: 4736Downloads:0Uploads:43 Thanks: 2 Thanked: 531 times in 361 posts]

#237848

<em>@MediaWorks 38818 wrote:</em><blockquote>The following is the answer of our lawyer about this subject.

If JA doesn’t respect the commercial agreement with its customers, the customers will be automatically authorized to use JA templates (the ones downloaded in the subscription period) in all the domains they want, since the licence agreement is null. If JA tried in this situation to pursue a customer legally (at least in EU) they would simply waste money.

That’s why we will probably see in the next months, after Avian II, Teline II, Fagus II… (and so on).</blockquote>

Dont missunderstand me MediaWorks:
Where is your lawyer located? Does this rules affect Vietnam? Or worldwide?

In another word, i have not read trough all this posts, but they ask for feedback on it? No changes made yet and no news about it?

[starmed Friend starmedJoin date: February 2007Posts: 51Downloads:0Uploads:0 Thanks: 2]

#237852

<em>@Menalto 38824 wrote:</em><blockquote>Dont missunderstand me MediaWorks:
Where is your lawyer located? Does this rules affect Vietnam? Or worldwide?</blockquote>

It would be great TV to see JA bring someone into court over using one too many templates while in violation of their own terms of service.

TemplatePlazza recently reduced the number of templates they provide and in doing so they doubled everyone’s term. That is what JA should do.

I never considered the option of JA increasing the allowed to use amount, which frankly would suit me better.

[MediaWorks Friend MediaWorksJoin date: September 2006Posts: 32Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 20]

#237859

Menalto;38824Dont misunderstand me MediaWorks:
Where is your lawyer located? Does this rules affect Vietnam? Or worldwide?

In another word, i have not read trough all this posts, but they ask for feedback on it? No changes made yet and no news about it?

As previously said, my lawyer is located in EU, and this is what he means really: as it would be problematic for a european customer to pursue JA legally, in the same way it would be a waste of time and money for a Vietnam based company pursuing a customer in EU, after having unilaterally broken a commercial agreement.
Since the customer paid to download 24 templates in one year, if he gets only 12 then the licence agreement can be considered null, in the sense that, for example, if the customer wants, he can use the downloaded templates in any domain. This is because the domains limit does not affect the template copyright, but is part of a commercial agreement.
This of course does not mean that the customer can resell JA templates or anything similar, just that the customer will be not more limited to 3 domains, for example.

[schlogo Friend schlogoJoin date: December 2007Posts: 90Downloads:27Uploads:0 Thanks: 6 Thanked: 3 times in 2 posts]

#237871

Well, two things….First, I believe template clubs are not taking business too seriously. Avian II which is a very nice template is just a pack of bugs with this alpha version of rsgallery2.Number of templates released decreased, tech support is generaly not very good etc… i am sure that sooner or later,one of thoses clubs will get in trouble.

Now I don’t know where you got your lawyers but it seems to me that he rules in place of a judge. As a lawyer, how can he say that you can just use all the stuff for free? That can be his decision. What you could do is sue them. It s possible, even if they are in Vietnam, based on international law and get a juge to rule something out.

<em>@MediaWorks 38818 wrote:</em><blockquote>The following is the answer of our lawyer about this subject.

If JA doesn’t respect the commercial agreement with its customers, the customers will be automatically authorized to use JA templates (the ones downloaded in the subscription period) in all the domains they want, since the licence agreement is null. If JA tried in this situation to pursue a customer legally (at least in EU) they would simply waste money.

That’s why we will probably see in the next months, after Avian II, Teline II, Fagus II… (and so on).</blockquote>

[MediaWorks Friend MediaWorksJoin date: September 2006Posts: 32Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 20]

#237874

schlogo;38848
Well, two things….First, I believe template clubs are not taking business too seriously.[/quote]

JA should. 14.000 customers are a lot (also of of potential troubles).

MediaWorks wrote:

Now I don’t know where you got your lawyers but it seems to me that he rules in place of a judge. As a lawyer, how can he say that you can just use all the stuff for free? That can be his decision. What you could do is sue them. It s possible, even if they are in Vietnam, based on international law and get a juge to rule something out.

Read (with more attention) my previous post. It explains better what my lawyer means. Nobody said that the customer can use JA stuff for free. He said that the domains limit does not affect the template copyright, but is part of the commercial agreement between JA and the customer. If the commercial agreement (that means: a private contract between two parts) is not respected by one of the two parts, then the counterpart can consider it null. Then of course a judge could interpreter it differently, but of course the part which first did not respect the agreement does not have a strong position. Anyway this is his professional opinion.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#237875

I can’t believe how much air is being wasted here — about lawyers, da… da … da… If you have the time and resources to bring a lawsuit — can you just do it already. Hire your lawyer. Spend your time in court.

Stop all these big talk.

Wake up guys — 15000 is not a very big customer base, or have you forgotten how to multiply, and then divide that to the amount of people that must be fed, resources to buy, etc,, etc. Let us say you won.

How much will each of you get, if your plaintiff is not a rich guy, or company? And, by the way, those of you who already have consulted their lawyers, or hired one for this fight: Have you asked your lawyers already about the liabilities, i.e., the exposure of each of the individuals?

Honestly, if you spend this much time for $70, I wonder how vocal will you be when we are talking about $100K, or $1M? or more?

Oh yeah, you are fighting for your principles. Really? Principle to be what? To be d….? to be s…….?

But here is my take on the matter. The Joomlart staff, who are doing all the good work, might have realized that with their present resources, the two templates per month is not just tenable — without sacrificing quality.

They have started hearing the customers. Some of them are actually participating in the Forum. A number of the volunteer Moderators are even more active now. From what I gather, they are also planning other stuff behind the scenes.

Whether they will deliver in the end, is another story. But, aren’t you happy that they are at least going in the direction that the customers have been clamoring for?

Why not spend some of your time instead helping them get the job done? Why not help make the “Instructions” so that we all benefit, for example? Why not share your ideas on how to make better templates? etc.

Or, are you stuck on your principle that with $70, you are entitled instantly to the best, non-buggy template at the first try, twice monthly? You are entitled to your opinion obviously. But, it shows as much about you also.

Cornelio

[MediaWorks Friend MediaWorksJoin date: September 2006Posts: 32Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 20]

#237877

cgc0202;38852Oh yeah, you are fighting for your principles. Really? Principle to be what? To be d….? to be s…….?

You miss the point. There are other great template companies which offer even more than JA for less and do respect their commercial agreements. That’s all. And many customers, like me, were choosing JA mainly for the 2 templates/month option. Just to have a wider starting choice for their potential customers.
Not sure that you have understood what you were reading, but nobody spoke about legal actions against JA, it would be ridicule.
Anyway, your post took for sure more energy and waste of time than mines.

[dragonlord Friend dragonlordJoin date: January 2008Posts: 57Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 6 Thanked: 15 times in 1 posts]

#237878

I voted for 1/month too, because i also think that it will improve the quality of the templates. The reason because i joined Joomlart ant not Rockettheme or Yootheme is the sytle of the Joomlaart Templates, they are cleaner and more minimalistic than those from Rockettheme or Yootheme with her PHP exploded Templates. But the Support and the Integration of Modules is better solved by the other Templates Club and i’m sure the reason is the 1 Template per month Development. So Joomlart should do 1 Template per mounth, but please new ones!

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