JoomlArt Forums 32,862 posts

[wonderbread Friend wonderbreadJoin date: April 2007Posts: 27Downloads:0Uploads:0 Thanks: 2 Thanked: 3 times in 1 posts]

#122672

As a member I always like the template that Joomlart offered. Recently i am designing a website using CB as the main content and I saw one brand new template for Community Builder came out and I was so amazed at the design and the beauty of it Is it possible to have one from Joomlart soon so I don’t need to join another template club as member?

Besides a lot of customers may have interest for the new template as CB become so popular now

[annaleen Friend annaleenJoin date: April 2007Posts: 187Downloads:0Uploads:5 Thanks: 56 Thanked: 13 times in 1 posts]

#229313

<em>@wonderbread 27279 wrote:</em><blockquote>As a member I always like the template that Joomlart offered. Recently i am designing a website using CB as the main content and I saw one brand new template for Community Builder came out and I was so amazed at the design and the beauty of it Is it possible to have one from Joomlart soon so I don’t need to join another template club as member?

Besides a lot of customers may have interest for the new template as CB become so popular now</blockquote>

I’m also looking for such a template, to you mind sharing your source if allowed?:)

[mmckeen Friend mmckeenJoin date: April 2006Posts: 112Downloads:27Uploads:12 Thanks: 15 Thanked: 5 times in 1 posts]

#237845

Was this template here? I would also like to see / use it. Thanks

[sfutterer Friend sfuttererJoin date: August 2007Posts: 30Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 2 Thanked: 1 times in 1 posts]

#256963

If anyone has information on where to get new community builder templates it would be greatly appreciated.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#256986

<em>@wonderbread 27279 wrote:</em><blockquote>As a member I always like the template that Joomlart offered. Recently i am designing a website using CB as the main content and I saw one brand new template for Community Builder came out and I was so amazed at the design and the beauty of it Is it possible to have one from Joomlart soon so I don’t need to join another template club as member?

Besides a lot of customers may have interest for the new template as CB become so popular now</blockquote>

My main concern with Community Builder is that they are very very very slow in upgrading their CB. For example, the stable Joomla 1.5x was released in January 2008, until now CBv1.2 is still in R2C version, it is almost six months since the release of Joomla 1.5x, and a stable version is not stable yet. When the stable version will arrive has not been announced.

When there was an upgrade from Joomla 1.0.12 to Joomla 1.0.13, they had a warnng that CB users must not upgrade to Joomla 1.0.13 because there is incompatibility. It took them eight months before they came up with the revision to CBv1.1.

Note that the Joomla 1.0x upgrades have been mainly for security reasons, that is also tre for Joomla 1.5x upgrades. The trouble here and could be dangerous is that if you do not upgrade your Joomla — because CB builder is so slow in upgrading their product — your site is vulnerable to attack.

The Joomla site has been attacked several times, and in spite of their dedicated highly skilled people working — it took several days (after each attack) before the problem was corrected.

The question now is this: Are you skilled enough or do you have the technical support resources to deal with a potential hack to your site — since you did not upgrade your Joomla because CB does not have their upgrade ready?

So you have a choice:

Security vs Aesthetics (because you want a CB template)

While CB is supposed to be open source, you have to keep on buying their manual every year, or when they make revisions. Otherwise, you will not be given the latest upgrade of their CBv1.x Sure it is cheap ($20 per manual) but if they want to sell something, they should be upfront and just become a commercial company, and sell their product like everyone else.

Cornelio

[mmckeen Friend mmckeenJoin date: April 2006Posts: 112Downloads:27Uploads:12 Thanks: 15 Thanked: 5 times in 1 posts]

#256989

<em>@cgc0202 63145 wrote:</em><blockquote>My main concern with Community Builder is that they are very very very slow in upgrading their CB. For example, the stable Joomla 1.5x was released in January 2008, until now CBv1.2 is still in R2C version, it is almost six months since the release of Joomla 1.5x, and a stable version is not stable yet. When the stable version will arrive has not been announced.

When there was an upgrade from Joomla 1.0.12 to Joomla 1.0.13, they had a warnng that CB users must not upgrade to Joomla 1.0.13 because there is incompatibility. It took them eight months before they came up with the revision to CBv1.1.

Note that the Joomla 1.0x upgrades have been mainly for security reasons, that is also tre for Joomla 1.5x upgrades. The trouble here and could be dangerous is that if you do not upgrade your Joomla — because CB builder is so slow in upgrading their product — your site is vulnerable to attack.

The Joomla site has been attacked several times, and in spite of their dedicated highly skilled people working — it took several days (after each attack) before the problem was corrected.

The question now is this: Are you skilled enough or do you have the technical support resources to deal with a potential hack to your site — since you did not upgrade your Joomla because CB does not have their upgrade ready?

So you have a choice:

Security vs Aesthetics (because you want a CB template)

While CB is supposed to be open source, you have to keep on buying their manual every year, or when they make revisions. Otherwise, you will not be given the latest upgrade of their CBv1.x Sure it is cheap ($20 per manual) but if they want to sell something, they should be upfront and just become a commercial company, and sell their product like everyone else.

Cornelio</blockquote>

While I appreciate your opinion what you wrote here just isn’t true. You are wrong about several things. First, the warning about the upgrade to .13 was because the Joomla team change the way passwords are stored. That had nothing to do with CB. CB was warning CB users as they should have. They had a fix for it within a week (I know – I use CB). There was also actually a problem with the very first .13 release from the Joomla team if you remember correctly so the warning was a GOOD thing. They CB team asked the Joomla team to delay the .13 release until the bug was fixed but they released it anyway and then had to fix it. While your point about security releases is valid, that is a concern for anyone using a 3rd party plugin (component – module – etc). Any Joomla patch or upgrade could potentially break your 3rd party pieces.

I have been using their product for three years and don’t remember ever seeing their site hacked. Can you tell when it was down the last time please…

The main CB product is FREE and always has been. You will get the next release for FREE. No one forces anyone to purchase the manual and the only thing you get by doing that is the manual and a PRE-RELEASE of the product. I don’t know why you think it cost anything to get CB. I would rather have a fully tested release without bugs (I am running the RC now and it is extremely stable) than something someone slapped together and they now expect me to take the hit.

I gladly paid to SUPPORT the product (not purchase the product) because I don’t believe in a free ride for everything. It is sure easy to criticize them for being “late” as you put it (there are a lot of components and modules I use that still aren’t released for 1.5 BTW), and at the same time expect them to provide all of this for free.

Again – I appreciate your opinion but I don’t believe – “in my opinion” – it is accurate.

Regards…

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#257012

<em>@mmckeen 63148 wrote:</em><blockquote>While I appreciate your opinion what you wrote here just isn’t true. You are wrong about several things. First, the warning about the upgrade to .13 was because the Joomla team change the way passwords are stored. That had nothing to do with CB. CB was warning CB users as they should have. They had a fix for it within a week (I know – I use CB). .</blockquote>

Hi mmckeen,

I do not make it a habit to state something, unless I have grounds for stating so. But, my own criteria for judging what is open source or not, may be different from yours or Joomlapoilis. There is not really a straight cut answer here to judge whose point of view is correct or incorrect — it is a matter of perspective.

And, as I elaborate below, CB as a product is not truly open source. Similarly, my main point that CB upgrade is so slow that you have to make a choice of sticking with CB or staying with what is compatible with latest CB version. As a result, since many upgrades of Joomla are for security reasons — not upgrading your Joomla because CB is not ready makes your site susceptible. [Whether it will be hacked or not, is another matter.]

As stated above, I have not made claims that is not supported, as I elaborate below.

I read the announcement myself. The advisory was not to upgrade because there is incompatibtility with the existing CB version at the time. I have upgraded my Joomla-Joomlart template to Joomla 1.0.13 with no problem, I wanted to use the CB because I wanted a feature in relation to the registration.

What I stated is a choice. Obviously, if your site is very dependent on CB, then it would be foolish to upgrade if there is incompatibility. — because the forum actually indicated a number of users who found their site messed up when they upgraded.

But, apart from security leaks, let us take the present. That Joomla 1.5.0 was coming has never been a surprise. This has been announced I believe more than a year if not two years ago (not sure exactly). Developers are given the developer versions of the Joomla 1.5 (alpha, beta, etc?) to allow them to keep up with the changes.

Joomlapolis had all that time to tailor their products to conform to the latest development version of Joomla 1.5x. Granted some extensions are simpler, but within a matter of days, there were already many native Joomla 1.5x extensions. Companies like iJoomla that had the attitude that they won’t make any changes until stable Joomla 1.5x has been released are using it as an excuse, so that it took them forever, if they have done so already to have Joomla 1.5x compatible version.

In the case of Joomlapolis, what complicated their release was that they tried to make a comprehensive CBv1.2 for everything — Joomla 1.0.xx, Joomla 1.5x and Mambo. Almost six month after, CBv1.2 RC is obviously not yet truly stable, and even the latter is not available — not free (see below) to every registered members of Joomlapolis.

<em>@mmckeen 63148 wrote:</em><blockquote>There was also actually a problem with the very first .13 release from the Joomla team if you remember correctly so the warning was a GOOD thing. They CB team asked the Joomla team to delay the .13 release until the bug was fixed but they released it anyway and then had to fix it. .</blockquote>

The Joomla upgrades were for security reasons. Their priority is to ensure that the source of security leak had to be fixed, as soon as possible. There are so many extensions now for Joomla, mostly third party. Just imagine if they have to wait for everyone to keep up before they release a product..

The thing is: If you were using the Joomla sites sometime during the mid year in 2007, their site has been hacked several times — down several times, for days.

If Joomla is hacked because they are using their own Joomla scripts, then it indicates vulnerability of the software. The hacks, or discovered potential security risks were among the reasons why there was a flurry of upgrades from Joomla 1.0.10 I think all the way to Joomla 1.0.13, and if not mistaken, also the succeeding versions of Joomla 1.0.xx

The same is true for Joomla 1.5.0 to 1.5.3, in fact, the changes were made sometimes with matters of days.

Obviously, because of the number of people using the Joomla site and the Joomla software, it is quite vulnerable to malicious attack. The likelihood that “mom and pop” or what have you site will be attacked is small nil. But, the chance is there when you make your site interactive.

<em>@mmckeen 63148 wrote:</em><blockquote>
I have been using their product for three years and don’t remember ever seeing their site hacked. Can you tell when it was down the last time please…
.</blockquote>

If I did not make myself clear in my previous response, I was referring to the Joomla site being hacked (se above). This was announced in several posts here in Joomlart. I was never a frequent visitor of Joomlapolis to know if their site was ever down, or whether it has ever been hacked.

<em>@mmckeen 63148 wrote:</em><blockquote>
The main CB product is FREE and always has been. You will get the next release for FREE. No one forces anyone to purchase the manual and the only thing you get by doing that is the manual and a PRE-RELEASE of the product. I don’t know why you think it cost anything to get CB. I would rather have a fully tested release without bugs (I am running the RC now and it is extremely stable) than something someone slapped together and they now expect me to take the hit.

I gladly paid to SUPPORT the product (not purchase the product) because I don’t believe in a free ride for everything. It is sure easy to criticize them for being “late” as you put it (there are a lot of components and modules I use that still aren’t released for 1.5 BTW), and at the same time expect them to provide all of this for free.

Again – I appreciate your opinion but I don’t believe – “in my opinion” – it is accurate.

Regards…</blockquote>

Did I say that the main CB product is not free in my previous post? But here’s my experience, after monitoring the Joomlapolis site for several months, I think before they finally came up with CB v1.1, I registered and tried to download. It did not allow me. I was being rerouted to the manual site. Maybe I was not doing it properly, but it was only when I bought the Manual that I was routed automatically and was able to download the CB v1.1

And here’s the latest post on CBv1.2 RC

CB 1.2 RC Released to doc subscribers and supporters
http://www.joomlapolis.com/content/view/5567/37/

and this what you can download for free

http://www.joomlapolis.com/component/option,com_docman/Itemid,36/

at present, just the old CBv1.1.The statement is clear, unless you subscribe to the manual you will not get the lates version, and that is not even a “truly stable version”.

So, is it really free?

It becomes a matter of perspective. At the moment, not ALL (to use your emphasis) products of Joomlapolis are free — there is a free one, and a “paid one”. The analogy would be more akin to the Public Broadcasting System (PBS), here are the programs that you may watch, and here are special programs that you may also watch if you are a donating member.

A software is truly open source if it is released to everyone at the same time, just like what Coppermine PhotoGallery does. This is true also for Joomla. Both cited companies do want their subscribers to donate. But, whether you donate or not, everyone gets access to the latest version of their latest products — there are no second class non-paying users. That is the true meaning of open source. Not open only to supporters, as is obvious here:

CB 1.2 RC Released to doc subscribers and supporters
http://www.joomlapolis.com/content/view/5567/37/

Joomlapolis cannot masquerade as truly an open source, with their policy. So, did I really state anything differently from my previous post? I think not.

It is something else if there are tiers of accessibiltiy — like what Joomlaworks does. They have free teaser Joomla extensions, but they have what they call “commercial versions”. But, they never claimed their products are open source. Even Joomlart has a free template and a number of free extensions, although they never masqueraded as Open Source.

Other companies also are under shareware license, where they allow downloaders to decide how much they think their product is worth. There is no pre-condition apart from the agreement to the terms.

But, apart from “Is it frre or not free?” or “Is it open source or commercial?” my main point is this.

It has been almost six months since Joomla 1.5.0 was released. The current version is still CBv1.2 RC, when will they come up with the truly native and stable Joomla 1.5x version? By the time they are ready to release their stable version (which obviously won’t be available to everyone for free immediately unless you are a subscriber-supporter), Joomla might have released a more radical version again of Joomla 1.5x, just like what happened to Joomla 1.0.13. So what then? How much longer would be the wait?

<em>@mmckeen 63148 wrote:</em><blockquote>
While your point about security releases is valid, that is a concern for anyone using a 3rd party plugin (component – module – etc). Any Joomla patch or upgrade could potentially break your 3rd party pieces.
.</blockquote>

Absolutely.

This concern is not just with CB actually, it is true for many of the Joomla extensions that I bought, and I do not mind paying or contributing if I think the product is worth it. Right now, only one of those I am using have been upgraded, and it is not working properly. The ones that I liked a lot that are free, one of them is still available but the main person involved has closed his site.

So, I am rethinking the use of third party softwares altogether. Once you have introduced a feature to a site — you cannot simply take it out because your users may expect it to be there.

Cornelio

[mmckeen Friend mmckeenJoin date: April 2006Posts: 112Downloads:27Uploads:12 Thanks: 15 Thanked: 5 times in 1 posts]

#257022

Thanks for your clarification. I’ll let it go at that since this thread is really about needing CB templates and not about the merits of the product…

Regards…

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