Css3 –why–

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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 27 total)
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  • suli3 Friend
    April 13, 2009 at 9:13 pm #140214

    I know CSS3 is the newest trend but, but if the template do not have the same look in in IE6-8 and Firefox this not a template.

    So you have use css3 in ruby and nickel. Please provide a css solution with the roundet butons amd modules also for ie6-8.

    Please.

    Phill Moderator
    April 13, 2009 at 9:34 pm #301174

    Take a look at this article.

    http://www.webexpectations.com/blog/2009/02/24/do-websites-need-to-look-the-same-in-all-browsers/

    wooohanetworks Friend
    April 13, 2009 at 9:54 pm #301179

    I work not only with JA or even Joomla Club Templates and there is no need to bug fix anything in regards to either IE, FF, Chrome, Opera, Safari, they all work in all browsers and NONE uses CSS3 and all look same in any browser. BECAUSE IT IS MANDATORY!

    Most important, the article states that “a littel pixel here or there, who cares”, with CSS3 it is not just “a pixel here or there” and for a lot of people, not the end user but also, they care about the little pixel here or there, as same when they look at a car, the polished one with no scratches makes the winner.

    Free templates could be made with CSS3, when those are declared experimental ones, paid ones must be “cross browser compatible” and all Joomla Clubs even advertise that all their templates are cross browser compatible and that does mean IN ALL BROWSERS THEY LOOK THE SAME and not this now here that they also work in all browsers but in the most important one they look ugly, this is not compatible to IE8 or IE in general, nothing that is worth a buck unless you are the only one who watches the site and watches it in FF only.

    See too many people and developers who build on FF because this browser either allows faults or quick work schemes or because they can experiment a lot. And their own “pro dev sites” look ugly in IE, their extensions only work good in FF, so this about pros. I never called myself a pro, they do call themselves pros but really ain’t, while I and a lot of others serious people simple follow the given can do’s and can’t do’s, all what one should do.

    Thanks! .

    Most important, when one feels that “the pixel here and there is not adequate for the own sites, than remove them”, also when others say it does not matter, when it matters to you, it matters and also the visitors will feel the difference.

    Phill Moderator
    April 13, 2009 at 10:10 pm #301181

    <em>@wooohanetworks 124159 wrote:</em><blockquote>Iall Joomla Clubs even advertise that all their templates are cross browser compatible and that does mean IN ALL BROWSERS THEY LOOK THE SAME and not this now here that they also work in all browsers but in the most important one they look ugly, this is not compatible to IE8 or IE in general, nothing that is worth a buck unless you are the only one who watches the site and watches it in FF only.

    </blockquote>

    It is beyond the control of any developer to make their websites look the same in every browser. The makers of browsers do this deliberately. Each browser renders fonts in different ways, applies effects in different ways. Nobody could change this in HTML.

    Compatible with all browsers does NOT mean look the same in all browsers.

    Even the layout of other browsers (their design ignoring the webpage it is displaying) will affect the overall astetic. Don’t get wrapped up in such minor things.

    mfcphil Friend
    April 13, 2009 at 11:46 pm #301191

    Wooohanetworks….please do not edit your post while in INVISIBLE MODE.

    iaweb Friend
    April 14, 2009 at 12:04 am #301192

    <em>@phill luckhurst 124161 wrote:</em><blockquote>It is beyond the control of any developer to make their websites look the same in every browser. The makers of browsers do this deliberately. Each browser renders fonts in different ways, applies effects in different ways. Nobody could change this in HTML.

    Compatible with all browsers does NOT mean look the same in all browsers.

    Even the layout of other browsers (their design ignoring the webpage it is displaying) will affect the overall astetic. Don’t get wrapped up in such minor things.</blockquote>

    Sorry, got to jump in here as well, but that statement is just plain stupid!!!

    Now we are blaming the Browser companies, that the designers are too lazy to properly write css code? It is possible to make them look the same on all browsers, it’s just more work!!! And maybe to you it is a minor thing, but to others it may be a major thing, don’t dismiss people’s opinion that easily!

    As much as I agree that it is a pain in the a… that different browsers render differently, it is a fact of life and as long as there are 5 major browsers which are used by 99% of the people, than it is part of a developers/designers job to make them compatible (and I mean same looking!!!!) in ALL these browsers.

    Only because you don’t like Microsoft or IE 6-8, does not mean you can ignore over 70% of your potential customers, as that is still the market share of the IE’s and you have to keep this in mind if you want to do any business.

    Rebel as much as you want on your private little site, but if you design as a business swimm with the sharks or get eaten…period.

    Sorry, but got to agree here with woohanetworks, as this is a template club = takes money for what it does = business = swim with the sharks!

    My two cents worth …

    Phill Moderator
    April 14, 2009 at 6:22 am #301217

    Answer me this, if a font is rendered differently in different browsers, how does a designer control this?

    Chrome, Safari, FF, IE – All render the standard fonts in a different way and there is nothing anyone but the makers of those browsers can do about it.

    I agree that rounded buttons is a loss that should be included for IE (the browser I have to use most of the time), but many other things are beyond any designers control.

    If you don’t believe me compare some of the biggest sites in the world, ones that get millions spent on them such as http://www.bbc.co.uk or even http://www.google.com in the most extreme examples, IE and Safari.

    suli3 Friend
    April 14, 2009 at 7:18 am #301221

    Hi all

    This discusion is nice, but it dont helpt to me. My request was and is still to the team to do their work and provide, the rounded borders.

    So i ask again: Please provide the rounded borders for the menu,modules eee…. for the ruby, nickel.

    suli3 Friend
    April 23, 2009 at 12:18 pm #302315

    Is anyone going to fix that?

    TomC Moderator
    April 23, 2009 at 1:52 pm #302319

    <em>@suli3 124212 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hi all

    This discusion is nice, but it dont helpt to me. My request was and is still to the team to do their work and provide, the rounded borders.

    So i ask again: Please provide the rounded borders for the menu,modules eee…. for the ruby, nickel. </blockquote>
    Is there any reason why you cannot create them yourself ??

    suli3 Friend
    April 23, 2009 at 2:42 pm #302321

    Hi

    Not all people cant do this, if you can do this nice for you. My request was to the team and to people who want help. Also if you want help you are invited.

    I ask again the team: Is anyone solving this issue?

    Regards,

    TomC Moderator
    April 23, 2009 at 4:10 pm #302331

    <em>@suli3 125648 wrote:</em><blockquote>
    I ask again the team: Is anyone solving this issue?
    </blockquote>
    The point you seem to be missing is that it is not a “problem” that needs to be “solved” in terms of the template itself. Rather, it is a modification that you are wanting to accomplish for YOUR site. As such, in addition to seeking assistance within the appropriate template section and with a more specific thread titie/request . . . you would also greatly benefit yourself by taking the time to lean how CSS design works (i.e. how to create the needed rounded corners and apply them to your layout structure).

    A little trial-and-error experimentation can go a LONG way – I’ve been discovering this to be very true over the last week or so . . . I’ve learned/accomplished an amazing lot by studying the CSS and PHP and seeing how changing things here and there affects the layout. It’s both educational and fun.

    🙂

    mj1256 Friend
    April 23, 2009 at 6:08 pm #302343

    many people think that joomla and templates are a solution for the do it yourselfer who has no technical expertise at all. many do not even know basic html. we run into this issue on almost every thread here at JA. Many people do not know where joomla ends and the template begins. Their expectations are wrong, joomla and the templates are great to use as a foundation to build on. but knowledge of html, php, css, and mysql is still required, but you may only need to know it on a basic level.

    Many people do not know what a browser is. I have clients that do not know. As for IE8, if you read through their own documentation, MS knew that it had compatibility issues and purposely added the IE7 backwards compatibility function becuase they could not make all the websites work in it. There is no global compatibility, things will render differently in every browser. This will not work in every browser without custom soding, and many of these things cannot be planned for until it actually breaks, The more complicated the site, the more this will be noticed.

    Only 3 or 4 years ago people built sites with frontpage and dreamweaver and never, ever thought of having the functionality that CMS systems make possible. Joomla sites are actually quite complex compared to where we were a few years ago and have given people a FALSE sense of ability as they were able to make site beyond their own knowledge of website architecture and coding abilities. Now, as they build more complex sites and the tools available are becoming more complex, they are finding out that they still need to know the basics, and as a defense mechanism, they blame all of the joomla providers and browsers.

    Now that my company has started to offer extensions to the joomla community, I have run into this on a first hand basis. Through our support I find sites that are really messed up, from the server level, to the install of joomla and failed attempts to make incompatible extensions compatible. I find that when users are having extension issues, its not always the fault of the extension, it s the install of joomla and the hostings providers setup itself that is messed up and I, and as JA has beeded to do, need to fix their websites on the most basic levels for them. I have been resisting this, just as JA has in the past, as a template or extensions providers job is not to fix errors in peoples websites. If your websites are working correctly, then the templates and extensions should work correctly. JA templates work pretty much right out of the box, when when they do not, it is in most cases not their fault, its other site issues that cause the problem. In my case, when there is an error in one of my extensions on a customers website, i usually find that the error is in all the extensions and there are actual error messages posted on their sites before they installed the new extension, but their efforts are to get anyone they can to fix it because they cannot, and they do not want to pay anyone to do it. They all think that joomla should work right out of the box, perfectly, no matter what you add to it, and they ignore all the 3rd party compatibility warnings that are posted everywhere, including the JA site. JA cannot test every possible environment and fortell every issue that your site may have as you add more and more moudles, plugins and extensions to it. It jsut cannot be down. So, when something does not work, it may not be the responsibility of JA or an extensions maker to make it work as its usually a compounding of errors and extensions incompatibily issues that cause the problem.

    I guess, what i am gettng at is, that people need to still have skills for building websites, regardless of the architecture used, and if they do not, they need to pay someone to help them to get over those bumps in skills. The expectations are wrong.

    I agree with TOM, sometimes you need to try to fix the issues yourself, and trial and error is a great way to fo it, or you can hire someone who is willng to fix things on a pay as you go basis

    1 user says Thank You to mj1256 for this useful post

    1. TomC
    TomC Moderator
    April 23, 2009 at 6:33 pm #302347

    <em>@mj1256 125680 wrote:</em><blockquote>many people think that joomla and templates are a solution for the do it yourselfer who has no technical expertise at all. many do not even know basic html. we run into this issue on almost every thread here at JA. Many people do not know where joomla ends and the template begins. Their expectations are wrong, joomla and the templates are great to use as a foundation to build on. but knowledge of html, php, css, and mysql is still required, but you may only need to know it on a basic level.

    Only 3 or 4 years ago people built sites with frontpage and dreamweaver and never, ever thought of having the functionality that CMS systems make possible. Joomla sites are actually quite complex compared to where we were a few years ago and have given people a FALSE sense of ability as they were able to make site beyond their own knowledge of website architecture and coding abilities. Now, as they build more complex sites and the tools available are becoming more complex, they are finding out that they still need to know the basics, and as a defense mechanism, they blame all of the joomla providers and browsers.

    I guess, what i am gettng at is, that people need to still have skills for building websites, regardless of the architecture used, and if they do not, they need to pay someone to help them to get over those bumps in skills. The expectations are wrong.

    </blockquote>
    As I have been saying for some time – a template is a STARTING POINT to take and modify/customize from there. JA Templates (or any other template club’s templates) are NOT intended to be turnkey website solutions . . . there needs to be some level of proficiency in working with the CSS and PHP code on the part of the web designer. Else, the solution is to contract with a designer.

    suli3 Friend
    April 23, 2009 at 8:53 pm #302372

    OK, dear team

    Thanks for NOT ANSWERING AND NOT HELPING

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