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[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#129967

Hello,

I read similar statements like this before:

“…going elsewhere [like] rockettheme.com or gavick. YOOtheme or Shape5 just to mention templates….” — shackbase

in other words, there are other templates companies out there that is as good, if not better than Joomlart.

Joomlart Templates

I must admit that when I first joined Joomlart on 2 August 2007, it was from a suggestion by merav to founder of iJoomla, after we have discussed what I wanted in a Joomla news-magazine portal.

I told merav outright that I do not like the complexity of layout creation of the iJoomla Magazine, and that it is difficult to manage because it will require too much attention from the Administrator.

I showed her dummy layouts of a cross of the good features I like of the BBC News, New York Times, and other professional online papers that I considered elegant — not one like a cheap whore with too much make up, gaudy clothes and cheap perfume.

The original JA Teline by Joomlart was closest to my suggestions — among the available templates at the time. And so, if I paid iJoomla for $75, it was worth in to chip another $70 to get the chance to use JA Teline.

Actually, after looking at the available Joomlart templates at the time, it was really just the original JA Teline that caught my attention, maybe one or two others, the rest did not really excite me so much.

It would have been enough for me to have registered for the lowest 3 months membership. The only reason why I chose for a year was because of the restrictive clause on the number of sites the template could be used for.

Dashed Dreams, Frustrations and Search for Greener Pastures

I must admit, I had great hopes for Joomlart when I first joined. I poured my thoughts into what I hope Joomlart could do to create really very innovative templates — not just clones of templates that were almost all the same beyond their dress, and lipsticks and perfumes. An example of such posts were:

Teline Template and the iJoomla Portal News
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/teline-template-and-the-ijoomla-portal-news/

which as it turned out (predated???) the eventual release of JA Teline II, undoubtedly the most popular Joomlart template. In fact, the JA Teline series account for more than 20% of all the original threads, or total posts in the entire history of the Joomlart Forum. The original JA Teline has the most number of total threads and total posts, but the young upstart, JA Teline II is catching up pretty fast.

Currently, the two in the JA Teline series, account for about twenty percent (20-40%) of the visits, depending on the time of the day — most of this was due to JA Teline II. JA Jolie is a very distant second during the peak of visits (afternoon US and early evening in Europe)

The above shares of the JA Teline series are pretty impressive considering that there are now more than 50 templates in the Joomlart’s chest. What the data tells us also is that, if the total posts, total threads and current visits are correlated with the interest to specific Joomlart template, the data gathered suggest that a great majority of the templates created did not attract many Joomlart customers.

There seems to be so many problems encountered by customers with the JA Teline II (maybe because of Joomla 1.5x?) and this dissastifaction is formenting rebellion.

As some are saying, maybe it is time to consider other templates companies?

Would you? Which one will you choose?

Cornelio

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#255181

I actually left Joomlart since early February 2008.

RocketTheme?

I did look closely at their templates, but while they are colorful and have some striking features none of their templates are anywhere near what I am looking for. I need a good functional news magazine template. They did not have it then.

The other reason that made up my mind, was a news at the time, that the core team of RocketTheme split up. The guy who was left behind had differences of “creative perspectives” with the rest — in other words, they did not get along. The others who left created another company.

You do not have to take my word, check their demo templates:

http://demo.rockettheme.com/

Gavick PRO

Before I joined Joomlart, Gavick PRO is one of those I was considering. I wrote to Gavick but I never got a response . in July 2007. Anyway, sometime early February 2008, I read that Gavick came up with a The News. I checked it and it was really much much more innovative than the original Teline.

Based from my experience with Joomlart, I decided not to have a one year membership, just 4 months. Why? Because Gavick has a very generous fair use policy — you can use any of their templates in as many sites as you want. They do not bother checking where you use their template — there is an unwritten code that you are honest enough and won’t share it with other people. You should check their modules, even their slide show image modules are being given away for free — more than likely to promote the company.

And they are succeeding.

It is much younger company than Joomlart, and their membership fee is almost twice than Joomlart (their Developer accounts are cheaper though), and yet, they now claim to have more than 15,000 paying customers.

So, in theory, I should be very happy with Gavick PRO. On the whole, they are good. They even have better manuals than Joomlart.

What gives? Well, just like Joomla, they are either understaff and could not keep up with the postings in their Forum. Also, their templates are still quite good — but just like Joomlart, they are stanrting to become clones.

So, why keep on paying them, if they do not create the templates that I want.

I left a post there that Joomlart has produced JA Teline II that is a very evolutionary. And, if they produce something better than JA Teline II, I will join them again for a short period, and get the template that I want.

Other Companies???

Well, you be the judge:

YouTheme
http://demo.yootheme.com/

Their come on advertisement? “bored with your template? zap up your website”

Honestly, it is just like a teenager that decided his(her) clothes are no longer the in thing for the month, and just had to get on with what the crowd seem to consider Hot. Oh well.

I checked: Shape5 too, and Google warned me:

Warning – visiting this web site may harm your computer!

Not something I would risk.

Bottom Line

Anyone who wants a news magazine template and cannot see the advance that JA Teline II should take pause. Can you really tell me that there is another template company with something approaching JA Teline II?

Sure it has its bugs and the staff have abdicated their roles to help the customers. But, then again, do not expect the moon when you just paid $70.

So, that is my take.

Cornelio

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#255183

So when the Teline III will be released?

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#255186

<em>@askieman 60982 wrote:</em><blockquote>So when the Teline III will be released?</blockquote>

I looked at RocketTheme and they did not catch me that much, and with their troubles, not sure I would want that.

I hope soon. JA Teline II is the most popular since the original JA Teline.and a greater proportion of the customers seem to gravitate to it.

If I were Joomlart, instead of creating those other wannabee templates, they should keep on improving and evolving the JA Teline series, until it is almost like that used by professional commercial online news and magazine sites.

JA Teline II is very advanced but nowhere near that now.

Cornelio

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#255236

Well, this is the only ‘Template Club’ I’ve ever joined. When I decided to create a CMS based site, I checked around for various templates that would suit my needs (an online version of our current magazine) and it had to be Teline II, nothing else came close.

I played around with the Demo site and then paid the 70 dollars and downloaded it. I have to say, I still love this template, even more so that it is slowly turning from the JA demo site, to my own site!

However, I do have some serious concerns, mainly the lack of decent ‘user guide’ for the template, plus, the number of issues with getting the thing working with Joomla 1.5. I went for a ‘finished’ template so I didn’t have to hack around in code (I am NOT a ‘code’ person), yet I still find myself having to hack around to achieve things that I consider should have been included (basic things like a ‘logo’ module!!).

I will not be leaving any time soon. I’m too far down the ‘Teline II’ route with my site to ditch it and start again … so I’ll live with the frustrations and hope that the other Teline II users with more experience than I (cornelio for example) will help me achieve my goal.

Just my twopenneth!!
Chris

[mfcphil Friend mfcphilJoin date: September 2007Posts: 2866Downloads:3Uploads:218 Thanks: 211 Thanked: 388 times in 133 posts]

#255244

<em>@cgc0202 60985 wrote:</em><blockquote>

If I were Joomlart, instead of creating those other wannabee templates, they should keep on improving and evolving the JA Teline series, until it is almost like that used by professional commercial online news and magazine sites.

Cornelio</blockquote>

Just thought I’d point out that some of us don’t like Teline and would rather see a lot more variation in the template……oh and JA buy some new paint! orange, blue green and red again and again and again..>:(

[mfcphil Friend mfcphilJoin date: September 2007Posts: 2866Downloads:3Uploads:218 Thanks: 211 Thanked: 388 times in 133 posts]

#255245

<em>@cgc0202 60978 wrote:</em><blockquote>

Currently, the two in the JA Teline series, account for about twenty percent (20-40%) of the visits, depending on the time of the day — most of this was due to JA Teline II. JA Jolie is a very distant second during the peak of visits (afternoon US and early evening in Europe)

Cornelio</blockquote>

Thats because a large amount of the others all pretty much look like clones of each other :(( and Teline II is just an update Teline 1 is it not?

[valic Friend valicJoin date: January 2007Posts: 39Downloads:0Uploads:4 Thanks: 2 Thanked: 20 times in 2 posts]

#255277

I have three subscriptions – Joomlart, Youjoomla and Templateplazza

And by my opinion, Joomlart it’s still the best.,and youjoomla it’s great(very close to joomlart in some elements), but templateplazza ,like Rockettheme, Yootheme, Shape5 are not something, and not for my taste.:cool:

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#255292

all of these providers have one common issue inherent to all of them.

People want to use joomla as an alternative to knowing anything about webdesign and development. They want an out of the box WYSIWYG solution with no technical abilites needed and a dream of quick riches from the internet.

Joomla does not provide this and that is transferred to the templates provided by these companies.

So, all of the companies share these usability issues. Until joomla becomes a non tectnical solutionm the templates will not be a non technical solution.

All of these companies share the same user questions…
“I’m new to joomla, can you teach me, fix it, or do it for me for free, so I don’t have to learn any code?”
If a user does not know how to use joomla, they will have issues with any template they install. This is not the fault of the template providers.

The template providers should only need to provide template support, not joomla support.

The failings are those of the users and their perceptions of joomla’s usability

As for which colors, graphic or layouts are better. Template design is an art and art appreciation is in the eye of the holder and is subjective to the personal experience and tastes of the user. So who is to say what is good or bad. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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#255294

I really don’t see the need for a poll like this – other than to be purposefully disrespectful to the JoomlART Team. Seriously, what is the inherent purpose of posting a poll and novelette about other template clubs here at JA? Are you secretly trying to advertise and/or recruit for them?

Granted, the conclusion ends of a positive note – but the bulk of this is little more than yet another tired gripe session.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#255296

<em>@mfcphil 61061 wrote:</em><blockquote>Thats because a large amount of the others all pretty much look like clones of each other :(( and Teline II is just an update Teline 1 is it not?</blockquote>

Hi mfcphil,

Teline II is not just an update of the original Teline, it is apparent in the inner page layouts, like the categories pages, and the Magazine menu. It is in the hidden scripts that make JA Teline II quite a significant evolution from the original Teline. I do not think that replacing modules from JA Teline II into the original Teline, would make the latter anything like what JA Teline II has accomplished.

The parallel is not justified, but if you are familiar with Macs, the difference would be akin to OSX “Leopard” and “Snow Leopard”, they share the same name but according to reports, “Snow Leopard” if Apple succeeds, will usher the beginnings of true parallel computing, at the desktop level,

JA Teline II is far from perfect though but it has a lot of promise; I hope eventually it will achieve the features of what a professional online magazine can do.

<em>@mfcphil 61060 wrote:</em><blockquote>Just thought I’d point out that some of us don’t like Teline and would rather see a lot more variation in the template……oh and JA buy some new paint! orange, blue green and red again and again and again..>:(</blockquote>

Please excuse my sarcasm, when it backfires on me:

<em>@cgc0202 60985 wrote:</em><blockquote>If I were Joomlart, instead of creating those other wannabee templates, they should keep on improving and evolving the JA Teline series, until it is almost like that used by professional commercial online news and magazine sites.

JA Teline II is very advanced but nowhere near that now.

Cornelio</blockquote>

I could use the excuse that I have not mastered a language that is not my native tongue.

Indeed, I recognize that. From a simple and not so scientific statististical analysis that I have done — based on the dynamic number of visitors, total threads and total posts — there are about 5 or so templates created by Joomlart that have seem to stand out.

Most of the rest do not get any visitors at all, or at best one or two (but more often none). In fact, there are I believe 19 other templates — that is almost two years of templates release — that are lumped under Other Templates that not many customers visit.

Of course, we are in different positions. Developers need as many templates to offer to their clients, and so the more templates the better. But, for many of us, that are really the bread and butter of Joomlart, who need only one or two templates at the most, we are not served well but the numerous templates that Joomlart attempts to come up with twice a month.

It is apparent that they are either under staff, or something else, but the lack of basic support such as well written Manuals, alert bug corrections and solution are more critical for us, and I am sure for even many developers who do not have scripting background.

There must be a balance so that both the needs of the regular customers and the developers can be met, without sacrificing either one. That is the balance I am trying to find here.

Cornelio

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#255301

<em>@tcraw1010 61128 wrote:</em><blockquote>I really don’t see the need for a poll like this – other than to be purposefully disrespectful to the JoomlART Team. Seriously, what is the inherent purpose of posting a poll and novelette about other template clubs here at JA? Are you secretly trying to advertise and/or recruit for them?.</blockquote>

If you doubt my intentions tcraw, that is your prerogative to do so. As a Moderator, you even have the power to lock, delete this thread. You may even ban me if you think I am abusing the Forum, disrespecting JoomlART Team and undermining .JoomlART, itself. [Note: tcraw010 (Tom) is not a Moderator. (please read his response below.)]

It will not be a surprise to me if that happens, I have been banned and had to accept the repercussions of what I did, in the past.

Yes, I have my disagreements with the way things are going here, and have been vocal when I need to. But, at the same time, when Joomlart or moderators are criticized more than they deserve, I voice my opinion too, as I posted several in this thread:

Seriously – let’s get a new fixed release (request 1.4)
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/seriously-lets-get-a-new-fixed-release-request-1-4/

To refute the premise of VisiGod, that all of the problem is the JA Teline II template, I took the time to do a clean install of Joomla 1.5x alone, to prove that quite a few of the problems new users posted here are not inherent in JA Teline II but inherent in Joomla Joomla 1.5x. I happen to know from my own installations.

I do not have the scripting background to refute VisiGod, and that is the only way that I could show him that my experience is different.

When it got ugly between VisiGod plus some other frustrated customers and Menalto, I stepped up to present my own position when I criticize Joomlart or the actions of Moderators, if you bother to read my last post in that thread.

This is getting ugly and personal
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/calendar-setup-nothing-to-setup-error-in-ie-only/#post-254763

I even posted something about the behavior of Moderators, but with your derisive comment about my novella, more than likely you have not read that. When I see something that I consider unbecoming, just like you, I point it out, even if the one involved is a Moderator

Really concerned about this: Should a Moderator keep answers private?

What you view as disrespect, on my part, is not unanimously shared, even by some Moderators. One even felt compelled to write to me to express in private that he changed his ways, and would consider his action before locking a thread or banning a person.

I never expected that my “novella” post would lead to such a response, and perhaps a change in behavior, even if only by a single person, but it did. That is the reason why I write the way I do — I may not be able to make a difference in the more profound problems in the world, but if I can reach just one person, or perhaps more, then I have made a difference.

<em>@tcraw1010 61128 wrote:</em><blockquote>
Granted, the conclusion ends of a positive note – but the bulk of this is little more than yet another tired gripe session.</blockquote>

I think this is the essence of your post — that this post is just another tired grip session. If you really think that is the case, then it explains the utter silence from Joomlart staff.

To my knowledge, I have worked very hard here answering some posts to help some new users of Joomlart — not to gain credits but more because I felt their desperation, like where I was when I was new user myself, and there was no staff to guide me through my predicaments.

I am a very slow writer; and sometimes I have to do the act myself, like installing yet another JA Teline II with either Joomla 1.5x or Joomla 1.0x in order to provide concrete answers, including detailed directions as to how the problem should be diagnosed — not nebulous suggestions that would get pass a new user. If I get paid for the amount of time for what I have done, actually helping new users, I could have several lifetime membership already.

Do you really think that one who you accused blatantly with this statement: “Are you secretly trying to advertise and/or recruit for them?” waste time to save Joomlart from more criticisms from disgruntled customers?

Just so you understand, the aforementioned statement is not a personal attack on you but a syllogism to put on the table for discussion by the group your perception of my actions, my own motivations, and for that matter how other paying customers perceive me and my actions.

One paying customer even claims that without my help, a few Moderators like Menalto, and some other regulars who were kind enough to respond to his posts claims that he would have dropped Joomlart and found other solutions (more than likely other template companies). Now he has gained enough confidence, so that from a beginner he is now sharing his newfound knowledge with other new users..

In this sense, “Yes I am recruiting!”, but as it turned out, it was for the good of Joomlart. Now you have another grateful customer who might just help other new users — and save Joomlart from otherwise greater dissatisfaction.

And yes, tired of the lack of basic support, I am recruiting other Joomlart customers to join forces so that we can help ourselves, if Joomlart and many so-called Moderators abdicated their roles. One of our projects happen to be preparing perhaps Manuals, How To’s, FAQs, Tips, etc. that would be understood by new users. Our focus right now would be mainly JA Teline II because that happens to be the most popular and at the same time the one where many have encountered problems.

I myself would need quite a bit of these learning tools, so I will be helping myself in the process.

Are we going to go beyond the initial focus of the group, aside from the one stated above, if we are successful in forming the group?

I will bet your last dollar, we will.:)

Cornelio

N.B.

By the way, this was more a provocative way to continue a discussion in another thread that got ugly — based on the contention of another poster that there are better choices out there. Are there? Whether the results are biased because this is a Joomlart Forum, so far, it seems the perception is more inclined to Joomlart?

Asians speak in a roundabout way sometimes. And, you have to know them well before you can truly understand their intentions.

1 user says Thank You to cgc0202 for this useful post

1. tempusserbia

[TomC Moderator TomCJoin date: October 2014Posts: 14077Downloads:58Uploads:137 Thanks: 948 Thanked: 3155 times in 2495 posts]

#255315

<em>@cgc0202 61137 wrote:</em><blockquote>If you doubt my intentions tcraw, that is your prerogative to do so. As a Moderator, you even have the power to lock, delete this thread. You may even ban me if you think I am abusing the Forum, disrespecting JoomlART Team and undermining .JoomlART, itself. [/quote]
I am not a Moderator

<em>@cgc0202 61137 wrote:</em><blockquote>I never expected that my “novella” post would lead to such a response, and perhaps a change in behavior, even if only by a single person, but it deed. That is the reason why I write the way I do — I may not be able to make a difference in the more profound problems in the world, but if I can reach just one person, or perhaps more, then I have made a difference. [/quote]
You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine.

<em>@cgc0202 61137 wrote:</em><blockquote>To my knowledge, I have worked very hard here answering some posts to help some new users of Joomlart — not to gain credits but more because I felt their desperation, like where I was when I was new user myself, and there was no staff to guide me through my predicaments. [/quote]
Which is EXACTLY what this Community Forum is for – people helping people to help themselves.
THIS has been the point to many of my responses and statements in this regard (hence my quote below).

Do you really think that one who you accused blatantly with this statement: “Are you secretly trying to advertise and/or recruit for them?” waste time to save Joomlart from more criticisms from disgruntled customers?

In this sense, “Yes I am recruiting!”, but as it turned out, it was for the good of Joomlart. Now you have another grateful customer who might just help other new users — and save Joomlart from otherwise greater dissatisfaction.[/quote]
What I don’t really understand why you wouldn’t have wanted to do this in the first place.

No one asked or paid Bob (instantinlaw) to make his tutorial videos for Xenia II when it came out. Until he became a member of the JA Staff, no one paid Menalto for helping people when they had issues. Similarly, I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the JA Staff – but when I have tried to help people (to the best of my ability), I did so because I wanted to – not because there was any kind of incentive to do so.

Helping people for the sake of helping should be what motivates you.

<em>@cgc0202 61137 wrote:</em><blockquote>I myself would need quite a bit of these learning tools, so I will be helping myself in the process.[/quote]
Another great comment !!. The point is, there is not, and never has been, anything to stop you and/or anyone else from doing this – ever. I think it’s a great idea – and it is exactly what the spirit of a Community Forum is all about.

😎

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#255318

Hi Tom,

My mistake about the Moderator. I stand corrected for the record.

And, for the record, may you please make sure that in your previous post, there is a significant section that was not quoted properly (the first part of proper quotation was missing). from my prior post. Please be so kind to attribute the quote properly, so there be no confusion. The readers will know who stated what.

I might have disagreed with you, other members or other Moderators in the past, but to my knowledge, I have never accused you nor those I have disagreed with as to any diabolical motives behind your good deeds, here in the forum. In this context, I have no disagreement about your posts on your own good deeds or those of others.

<em>@tcraw1010 61128 wrote:</em><blockquote>
What I don’t really understand why you wouldn’t have wanted to do this in the first place.
No one asked or paid Bob (instantinlaw) to make his tutorial videos for Xenia II when it came out. Until he became a member of the JA Staff, no one paid Menalto for helping people when they had issues. Similarly, I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the JA Staff – but when I have tried to help people (to the best of my ability), I did so because I wanted to – not because there was any kind of incentive to do so.

Helping people for the sake of helping should be what motivates you.
</blockquote>

I really do not know where you are going with this:

<em>@tcraw1010 61128 wrote:</em><blockquote> What I don’t really understand why you wouldn’t have wanted to do this in the first place.</blockquote>

Did I ever post anything here to suggest, in the first place, or the second place, that cast doubt and to suggest a more diabolical motive in regard my actions?

After citing the noble deeds of others and yours, indeed laudable, can you please cite any post of mine to suggest that i am not motivated in the same spirit for you to suggest:

<em>@tcraw1010 61128 wrote:</em><blockquote> Helping people for the sake of helping should be what motivates you.
</blockquote>

or are we stuck with your previous perception:

<em>@tcraw1010 61128 wrote:</em><blockquote> Are you secretly trying to advertise and/or recruit for them?</blockquote>

I am sorry if I do not understand what you are insinuating above. My native tongue is different from the language spoken where I was born, and different from the lingua franca of my own country, and then we have to learn English as well — so that sometimes it takes me time to understand people.

Frankly, I do not know where you are going with the statements I quoted. But, if I understood you correctly, it is not a very good portrayal of who I am and what motivates me. It is true that you are entitled to your opinion, but, to paraphrase Lewis Carroll:

“Do you really write what you mean, and mean what you write?” when you stated:

It is one thing to criticize, but another to cast doubt on the intentions of others — unless you truly know them, and have proof to support your accusation. If not, the quoted statement in your original response is uncalled for.

The sad part of all this is that sometimes these misunderstandings lead to perceptions that become reality in our minds. An unwanted divide separates people that may in reality be working for the same goals.

Even if it is the case that our own goals may not always be in parallel with that of Joomlart or other members here; that in itself is not inherently diabolical. The other is not wrong because we think we are right. It is our ability to accept our differences that would be important — no matter how we feel on the matter, because we are not one and the same.

Cornelio

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#255320

Voted “Considering but have not found one I like.” i like the templates in general , the reason im considering to go somewhere else is because i dont have good experiance with the support on here. There are some very active users who are willing to help ppl, and some good mods but way way way to many unanswered problems.

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