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[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266135

VisiGod,
Let’s use some constructive thinking here. Perhaps a piece of encrypted code could be useful!
I have been working with both public private and asynchronous algorithms and yes you are right. Without some kind of hashed keys it can’t be done.
I do think this should be something for the Joomla Taskforce. For instance include some kind of approved algorithm that Developers could use. I am actually surprised that the whole user system is not encrypted.
The reason for this is that we have a few unethical developers that hide “call home” and “hidden back links” in the code and they could or probably do hide it in “homemade encrypted code”.

Bosse

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#266136

<blockquote>There MUST be an alternative to Teline and other templates out there!</blockquote>
this looks promising: http://demo.templateplazza.net/?template=magazine

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266137

<em>@bossep 74502 wrote:</em><blockquote>Cornelio,
I do agree with you on most of your points. I have been a bit defensive on this but must admit that you have more than one point.
But I think it is a shame that JA senior staff or any one for that matter pays a slight attention to this.
I start to get the feeling that Hung is a masochist making things worse by not addressing the issues when it gets heated.
I also think it is a shame that we the PAYING users actually are thinking that we need to discuss JA issues outside of this forum.</blockquote>

<em>@bossep 74502 wrote:</em><blockquote>
I could probably set up one of my spare domains for some kind of forum. But I do feel that I might as well just forget the money I spent for my developer license (I did buy this license to support JA) and go else ware. There MUST be an alternative to Teline and other templates out there!
Bosse</blockquote>

Bossep,

When I was not getting any responses from most of my postings in regard Teline II by Joomlart I have already initiated a number of sites to address these issues and more. Right now these sites use Teline II but it does not have to be the template used.

What is to prevent us for example creating our own template — if there are enough users — in case Joomlart will completely ignore us, as it is doing right now?

This might be censored again, but consider this:

10 people x $70/year => $700
100 people x $70/year => $7,000
1,000 people x $70/year => $70,000

or

10 people x $40/3months => $400
100 people x $40/3months => $4,000
1,000 people x $40/3months => $40,000

that is a lot of money that we are giving Joomlart, and not getting what we expect of Joomlart.

Except for website developers, most of us would need only one but free template that must be customized and updated as Joomla is updated.

In another thread, Menalto claims he could create a template in a day. I asked him in the same thread if he could create a bug free template in 3 days, and he stated publicly that he can do it.

Since we are all licensed users of the Joomlart template that we use, why don’t we all collaborate together to “find the solutions to the issues that we confront” — instead of simply waiting at the mercy of Joomlart — to ignore us, deny our request or even eject us because we do not agree with their perspective or strategy.

In other words — all of us, as current Joomlart members already have the Joomlart template that we need to work with. We just have to find the correct solutions to those that concern us — with or without the help of Joomlart..

We reacting rather than pro-acting. We are too bogged down by issues — including the “Call Home” function — that really should not matter if we begin to understand that we have the power of numbers on our side.

Cornelio

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#266138

I agree with you Cornelio,
Your “consumer report” is a great idea!

As I said before I could probably set it up. But my daily work is a big problem
Are you and someone else willing to help? I can provide the skeleton I believe but I need the help of others.

So IF anyone here is interested send me a PM and let’s discuss the go about.

In response to VisiGod’s warez post. I do stand guilty as charged….😮

Bosse
<em>@cgc0202 74505 wrote:</em><blockquote>Strategy 3: A consumer report for website creators, designers and developers

We should think outside of the box in addressing this issue and other issues that we encounter whether we are using Joomlart or any template from other template companies.

We should not just be passive and just be passive — just reacting. We must be pro-active to ensure that no template company will simply ignore our concerns.

If you have been a member of other template companies, used their Forums and used their templates, they have problems too — some related to those we encounter with Joomlart.

And, Joomlart is not the only one causing the problems for us. Joomla itself is the source of many of the problems, as well as shitty browsers like Internet Explorer.

We have to recognize all these sources of our problems. And, we need to work together to solve these.

Cornelio</blockquote>

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#266139

<em>@perdu 74508 wrote:</em><blockquote>this looks promising: http://demo.templateplazza.net/?template=magazine</blockquote>

But still Teline is still nicer and cleaner. **** good template…..sigh

Bosse

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266140

<em>@perdu 74508 wrote:</em><blockquote>this looks promising: http://demo.templateplazza.net/?template=magazine</blockquote>

And yes, we do not have to be limited to Joomlart templates if Joomlart does not want to accommodate our concerns as customers.

If we have a separate group, with defined goals and objectives, we can negotiate as a group — with Joomlart and other template companies.

I still prefer Joomlart Teline II though, and many of us can start from there. Hypothetically, if we already have the template that we want, we really do not need Joomlart. We can collaborate as a group to upgrade Joomla and whatever template we already are using. We can hire expert programmers, if we want, if there are enough of us.

The “Power of Numbers” is something that Joomlart must understand.

We do not have to be simply subservient to what Joomlart dictates. We can look elsewhere, or even develop in house templates.

Cornelio

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#266141

<em>@VisiGod 74504 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hehe, there is in fact 🙂

I remember a commercial templates designer stating about the distribution of his work on warez sites: “I can’t stop them, there will be always someone stealing. I prefer to use my energy in production of more quality products, that will actually bring me more money, new and happy clients, rather than fighting the warez.”

When the quality appears to be a huge issue here, two questions come to my mind:
– Why JA doesn’t spend this energy in improving quality rather than fighting with the wind mills 🙂
– Warez sites and illegal staff actually offers something that pretty much scares some commercial developers – people can look at the quality of the product before purchasing (I know a lot of people do that, they never use illegal staff on production sites, but test the paid products illegally). The demos look fine, but if the client encouters “illegally” all the issues we also have here (legally), is he actually going to become a club member? You can answer this question yourself. :P</blockquote>

This is thinking out of the box VisiGod.

My preferred strategy also. The Linux OS is free, for example, but Linux Hat (???) still has become a multibillion dollar company because of the added value it provide.

In the end, it is because of the service that comes with the product. IBM is making money from Open Source softwares.

This is what Joomlart is forgetting when it ignores its customers.

Cornelio

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#266143

I have a friend – commercial developer 😉
His sales were not good at all. He decided to publish (himself) his key product into a warez site … it was interesting to see that his sales dramatically increased in the next few days.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266147

<em>@bossep 74510 wrote:</em><blockquote>I agree with you Cornelio,
Your “consumer report” is a great idea!
</blockquote>

It is perfectly legal to “review” for example the products and quality of the services of various template companies. There could be specific criteria including the questions like these:

1. Does the template company company have a QuickStart Kit?

This is a great time saver — not all template companies provid this.

2. Does the template company use a “Call Home” function?

those website developers who do not like this feature, and a priority will then avoid companies that use a “Call Home” function. This is what I mean by thiking out of the box

3. Does the template company provide template update patch to upgrade and fix bugs?

just to cite those relevant to the topic here. And much much more to give template users before they even join. If these reviews are done objectively, we can influence the practices and services provided by template companies.

We do not have to ever beg like we are doing here in this thread. We do not have to have our posts ignored or censored, ever again.

More importantly, we do not have to have “reactive solutions” that are waste of time. Why select a company for example that use “Call Home” function and then spend your time going around this problem if you can get a template from another company without this restriction.

<em>@bossep 74510 wrote:</em><blockquote>
As I said before I could probably set it up. But my daily work is a big problem
Are you and someone else willing to help? I can provide the skeleton I believe but I need the help of others.

So IF anyone here is interested send me a PM and let’s discuss the go about.

In response to VisiGod’s warez post. I do stand guilty as charged….😮

Bosse</blockquote>

You do not have to do it Bossep, I already initiated a number of sites a long time ago. I have not just posted the links here because I do not want to advertise in a Joomlart Forum. If you want to help, that is the essence of the Collaborative Support Group.

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#266150

<em>@VisiGod 74516 wrote:</em><blockquote>I have a friend – commercial developer 😉
His sales were not good at all. He decided to publish (himself) his key product into a warez site … it was interesting to see that his sales dramatically increased in the next few days.</blockquote>

I could understand this. Much like many developers for the iPhone are providing their products for free because they have other ways of earning money from those who use the free product.

To go back to Joomla extensions, I bought a few 3rd products myself, after careful research; but I was disappointed with quite a number of them. [Joomlart does not have a monopoly on the issue of insufficient support and lack of services needed.]

Cornelio

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#266152

Cornelio,
So way not post the url’s?
I cant not see any harm in it as long as you are not compeating with JA or doing bad flaming of them.
<blockquote>You do not have to do it Bossep, I already initiated a number of sites a long time ago. I have not just posted the links here because I do not want to advertise in a Joomlart Forum. If you want to help, that is the essence of the Collaborative Support Group.</blockquote>BosseP

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#266156

<em>@bossep 74525 wrote:</em><blockquote>Cornelio,
So way not post the url’s?
I cant not see any harm in it as long as you are not compeating with JA or doing bad flaming of them.
BosseP</blockquote>

It is against the policy of Joomlart to be advertising other sites here Bossep. At least from my own perspective, I consider it at least “not proper” to be including these URLs, since I and some members here started them or were part of the core group that has thought of the idea. [You were on vacation when we thought of this.]

This is especially true because the topic discussed here is a bit controversial.

As important, from my experience with some threads I started in the Joomlart Forum, I really do not like the idea that of someone else deleting my posts, especially if I think I made sure I was abiding by the Forum rules of Joomlart.

I was shocked that my thread regarding the “Joomlart Template (Fix) Patch” for example was censored, when in fact, I thought it would help ease not only the work for most customers but also Joomlart.

I am not fond of ad hoc or case-to-case rules. I prefer transparency and it does not seem to be something that Joomlart want to do or consider a threat.

Moreover, the issue raised in this thread,, as well as the other ideas I have in mind are still in conceptual stage. In the concept of the Collaborative Support Group, one of the goals is for the members to help evolve the ideas, not coming from a single person, or just reacting to the ideas already presented.

The aforementioned was the reason why I offered the option for members who are interested to send me a PM and provide their email address, instead. Then, we can go from there.

So, send me a PM if you want to help. At this stage the more important thing to do first is to get “constructive and out-of-the-box ideas” related to the issue — not just criticisms of what is wrong with the policy or “reactive solutions”. The latter are a waste of time, as far as I am concerned, based from the complete lack of participation of Joomlart staff, in finding a compromise with the customers.

No official response at all for ten (10) days. It gets tiresome trying to persuade Joomlart, if they act this way.

Cornelio

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#266169

look. I don’t care how much money JA makes, it s a for profit company and their pricing is resonable. So, I don’t think we should be commenting or speculating on their profit margins.

I do not think we should form a group outside of JA. I think it should be internal and that the staff should be able to participate, read the posts, or not.

I do think that JA should address the phone home issues and how the licensing will work.

I do understand their issues with warez and theft of services, but these issues need to be addressed without penalizing the paying members and active participnts of the forum..

I do think they should stay withing the regulations of the GPL

I don’t think we should tell them how to run their business, but…we should have a say in what we as customers want and they have the right to meet us on our requests or not.

JA guys, I know your reading this, you should check out the story of dellideastorm and how the community requests for linux and open source software changed the product offering of dell computers.

If you selling green widgets when your customers want red widgets only, you will lose your business. Address the needs of your customers and your business will grow. A company exists for it s customers first, and then the money will follow. And I hope you make tons.

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1. bossep

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#266173

Ten (10) days and not a singleofficial response from Joomlart — whether or not they are reading this thread.

I hope Joomlart listens to you. How many different threads have you posted related to this issue, and how many times have Joomlart responded to you?

In the meantime, other options must be considered, including out of the box solutions — if only to explore if there are practical alternatives. As far as I am concerned, there is no conflict among these options — try to persuade Joomlart and consider other options, outside of Joomlart.

If you negotiate, it is always a wise idea if you have options. If your counterpart knows that you do not have these options, more than likely, you will be ignored — as this thread is being ignored right now.

I maintain for example that Teline II is the best magazine template; but the Demo template is just the starting point. You spend more time customizing the template, without adequate support, a good template is essentially worthless. And, if more restrictions are included, such as the “Call Home” function, a good template further loses more of its luster.

Cornelio

N.B.
For the record. I am not speculating about the profit of Joomlart with the figures I provided. I am considering the cost equivalent to the amount of time I spend trying to correct a buggy template, or if I spend so much time trying to upgrade a template because a patch is not provided.

It is much easier to calculate the actual gross income of Joomlart, based on the statistics provided.

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#266183

you know, if it was me, maybe I would sit back and watch for a while also. There is way too much speculation going on in this thread. We really don’t know much at all about the how, what or where of the licensing. Maybe they just have not made any final decisions on what they are going to do yet.

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1. jwellman

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