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[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266221

mj,

<em>@mj1256 74556 wrote:</em><blockquote>you know, if it was me, maybe I would sit back and watch for a while also. There is way too much speculation going on in this thread.
</blockquote>

Speculations abound when there is a dearth of information.

<em>@mj1256 74556 wrote:</em><blockquote>
We really don’t know much h at all ….
</blockquote>

Yeah, if no official response is forthcoming.

<em>@mj1256 74556 wrote:</em><blockquote>
… about the how, what or where of the licensing. Maybe they just have not made any final decisions on what they are going to do yet.

??????????????????????????????????????</blockquote>

Wow! Are you telling us … Joomlart knows the final outcome:

<em>@Hung Dinh 72618 wrote:</em><blockquote> …The templates will not fully function on unregistered domains..</blockquote>

but is still trying to find their way how to get there? Are they just floating the idea then, like what they did with the “one template per month in January? And, for something so critical and likely to be controversial?

If that is the state of this function, more like “pre-alpha stage” from your speculation, the implication is just as bad and perhaps even worse, if you think about it more thoroughly.

And, if that is the case — still groping their way as you characterized (speculated) — I would not be too surprised. Why? Some of the bugs or problems in Joomla 1.5.x-Teline II for example could have been easily detected and corrected had someone actually performed the Easy Install of the QuickStart Kit. And yet, the template was released with the users left to their own devices mainly not only to find but also to deal with the problems.

What you stated above is as much a great speculation, as any other posted here. If not more so because you are trying to speculate what is in the minds of the Joomlart staff when they decided to implement this new policy and how they go about it.

In contrast, most of the others posted here are reactions to the announced new policy and how to counter what is undoubtedly an unpopular policy. I will bet your last dollar, if a Poll was posted for this policy — once the ramifications are presented of the “Call Home” function — many of the members are likely to react as those who already responded.

And, if this “Call Home” function is more known by the public — more than likely this will deter many potential and existing customers to ever use Joomlart template, no matter how good they may be.

I use you as exhibit #1🙂

The reluctance to accept the “Call Home” function will be more solidified, if potential new (or even existing) members find out that there are other template companies that do not have a need for this “Call Home” policy. I know at least one that I have been a member of.

In this Forum, outside of Joomlart Staff, have yet to read a champion for the “Call Home” policy. Even Tom, undoubtedly the most ardent supporter of Joomlart, has not touched this hot potato. Or, if there is one, I might have missed his post here, regarding this issue.

To be frank, as I stated above, I am unlikely to be affected by this “Call Home” policy — because I already have the template I want from Joomlart. Teline II. I also have a Developer license — good for two years and counting from my credit points, so I have unlimited license, i.e., unlimited number of domains for alll existing templates.

However, like many others here, including you, I might add, I find that unless this “Call Home” function dangerous for the reasons I already discussed in this thread. And, this “Call Home” function becomes a complicating issue also, if the “Developer license” is not made more clear.

Cornelio

[leoncai Friend leoncaiJoin date: September 2006Posts: 34Downloads:0Uploads:0 Thanks: 4]

#266236

wrong board sorry.

[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266313

Let me just chip in a few cents here.

<em>@mj1256 74542 wrote:</em><blockquote>look. I don’t care how much money JA makes, it s a for profit company and their pricing is resonable. So, I don’t think we should be commenting or speculating on their profit margins.</blockquote>

Exactly, we the users should benefit from a profitable provider. Besides there is a lot of costs related to software development. So even if the “power of numbers apply” it also works in reverse. Bug fixes are expensive and so is code maintenance! I do think that JA is following the law of “It is not the big income you get rich on, it is the small expenditures” and I think they might follow this a bit too hard.
But as mj so wisely states this is not for us the clients to mess around with. We can only complain about lack of service and bad products.

<blockquote>I do not think we should form a group outside of JA. I think it should be internal and that the staff should be able to participate, read the posts, or not. I do think that JA should address the phone home issues and how the licensing will work. </blockquote>
a. Agree on the group thing. But it might be a good idea with a more global forum and a place reviewing different template clubs and templates. It probably exists but I don’t know ware.
b. Call home issue. I do think JA is testing their wings on the license issue. This is not an easy problem to solve, companies like Microsoft, etc. has spent billions on it. Call home at least from the front end is a bad issue in general. However the communication between external servers is a big part of the Web2 specification. I do think that most of us is using RSS feeds, Video, whether reports, etc. on our sites and that is just that. Call home functions. The thing is how the system is designed to handle connection errors, slow connections, etc. I do expect JA to NOT implement this at the present stage.

<blockquote>I do understand their issues with warez and theft of services, but these issues need to be addressed without penalizing the paying members and active participnts of the forum..</blockquote>
I would like to see a tread by the JA staff clearly stating a brain storming with their clients to look for a solution. You can newer please everyone but probably a majority. This is not just to let us vent our disappointments. It is actually a valuable thing for JA.
<blockquote>I do think they should stay withing the regulations of the GPL</blockquote>
Absolutely! But I do prefer a breach in this if GPL hamper the possibility to produce better Templates/ Applications. But JA needs to be prepared to take the heat from it.
<blockquote>I don’t think we should tell them how to run their business, but…we should have a say in what we as customers want and they have the right to meet us on our requests or not.</blockquote>
Agree, to not listen to your clients is normally a BAD business idea.
<blockquote>JA guys, I know your reading this, you should check out the story of dellideastorm and how the community requests for linux and open source software changed the product offering of dell computers.</blockquote>
Need to read that. I know that Linus Torvalds (the creator of linux) is taking a lot of heat and are pretty agitated about the way his creation is moving.
<blockquote>If you selling green widgets when your customers want red widgets only, you will lose your business. Address the needs of your customers and your business will grow. A company exists for it s customers first, and then the money will follow. And I hope you make tons. </blockquote>
Agree to 100% with this. JA has the best News template out there with Teline II. I think most of us agree on that but this is also part of the problem. We all get frustrated because we see the potential for JA and for US! So when the wheels are falling off our sexy Porsche and the factory doesn’t address the issue and fix it we start to look at the neighbors Toyota.

Bosse

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#266321

wow, the way I’m being quoted I could be a politician 😉

I am on your side, against the “phone home” concept.

I did like the reference to an outside forum or site that reviews template clubs.

bossep
<blockquote>a. Agree on the group thing. But it might be a good idea with a more global forum and a place reviewing different template clubs and templates. It probably exists but I don’t know ware.</blockquote>

so, lets look at the big picture

we start an outside discussion group for templates
we than come up with the official joomla template certfication
the group creates a list of criteria to rate the template clubs and the templates by
any joomla user would look for the official seal of approval or certification before purchases

so we will now have a board of standards.

creating a site is easy, choosing a board of directors is more difficult, getting active participants and creating a certification that is respected and the new standard is more difficult.

Can we get the blessing of the joomla organization?

[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266324

The reason you are being quoted is probably because you have some good or bad points! 🙂 In this case I think they are really god.

1. The board is probably the easy part. I will put on my thinking cap and look through my domain list for a good place. I had one called codeweb something but not sure. I will also take a look at the different community builders, etc.
2. Joomla certification. Hmmm, this sounds great but it might be hard. Let’s think of how to go about it.
3. The list of criteria. Yes we should probably start with this and to form the group. I would like to see as wide variety as possible not only JA users. Let’s see what we could find out there. I should also welcome someone from the Joomla team to be in on this.
4. “Any joomla user would look for the official seal of approval or certification before purchases”. This should be the point of the whole thing. Developers use this as a sales argument. The clients could be reasonable sure they get something they could work with. A win win situation if handled correct. We could probably also help the Joomla Taskforce with ideas for new standards, etc.

Bosse

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#266328

<blockquote>In this case I think they are really god.</blockquote>

so, I could be a politician LOL

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266330

<em>@VisiGod 74473 wrote:</em><blockquote>ja_templatetools_1.5.php

The significance is that this function sends data about the admin account to Joomlart</blockquote>

Where is this located VisiGod?

Cornelio

[VisiGod Friend VisiGodJoin date: January 2006Posts: 538Downloads:0Uploads:4 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 138 times in 18 posts]

#266331

Cornelio on a subdomain named www3 – where there appears to be nothing.

[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266336

I think you have a hidden talent for it so YES!:D

[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266338

Cornelio,
Check out the function checkupdate() in
templateja_nagayaja_templatetools_1.5.php
If you follow the flow you will see that it queries the user table and sends it trough a call
to the www3 server.

BosseP

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#266351

I don’t like that, and I don’t think any 3rd party joomla supplier such as JA should under any circimstances have access to our sites or user base without our expressed consent.

what they are saying is that they own the template forever, even after we paid for it, and because of that, they have the right to everything attached to its usage.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266362

Thanks all, especially Perdue, VisiGod and Bossep:

<em>@perdu 74427 wrote:</em><blockquote>Look in template tools in the nagya template

$datas = ‘$J#PRODUCT_KEY$,$J#OWNER$,’.JURI::base();
$req = “datas=$datas”;
$url = ‘/checkversion.php’;
$address = “www3.joomlart.com”;
$port = 80;
$header = “POST $url HTTP/1.0rn”;
$header .= “Host: $addressrn”;
$header .= “Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencodedrn”;
$header .= “Content-Length: ” . strlen ($req) . “rnrn”;
$fp = fsockopen($address,80);</blockquote>

<em>@VisiGod 74737 wrote:</em><blockquote>Cornelio on a subdomain named www3 – where there appears to be nothing.</blockquote>

<em>@bossep 74744 wrote:</em><blockquote>Cornelio,
Check out the function checkupdate() in
templateja_nagayaja_templatetools_1.5.php
If you follow the flow you will see that it queries the user table and sends it trough a call
to the www3 server.

BosseP</blockquote>

This is way over my head. But here’s what I found so far. Based from prior posts:

templates => ja_nagya => ja_templatetools_1.5.php

and indeed, as posted by perdu, using the code

$address = "www3.joomlart.com";

for “Find” in the respective ja_templatetools_1.5.php, I found the codes

$datas = '$J#PRODUCT_KEY$,$J#OWNER$,'.JURI::base();
$req = "datas=$datas";
$url = '/checkversion.php';
$address = "www3.joomlart.com";
$port = 80;
$header = "POST $url HTTP/1.0rn";
$header .= "Host: $addressrn";
$header .= "Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencodedrn";
$header .= "Content-Length: " . strlen ($req) . "rnrn";
$fp = fsockopen($address,80);

in Nagya

File Name: JA Nagya for Joomla 1.5 (6.86 MB) Download
Author: JoomlArt (Uploaded by trungch)
Version: 1.1
Date Added: 08-08-2008
Downloads: 784
Grade: B+
Description
(Quickstart included Joomla! 1.5.6 + Template installation packages)


but not found in Teline II version


File Name: JA Teline II for Joomla 1.5 (10.77 MB) Download
Author: JoomLart (Uploaded by Hung Dinh)
Version: 1.5
Date Added: 08-05-2008
Downloads: 960
Grade: A+
Description
(Quickstart included Joomla! 1.5.6 + Template, Extensions installation packages)

not found in Mesolite

File Name: JA Mesolite for Joomla 1.5 (10.48 MB) Download
Author: JoomLart (Uploaded by Hung Dinh)
Version: 1.2
Date Added: 07-30-2008
Downloads: 1924
Grade: A+
Description
(Quickstart included Joomla! 1.5.6 + Template, Extensions installation packages)

and other few templates, I downloaded the previous days, in relation to this issue. I will try to download the 10 most popular Joomlart templates, accounting for almost 80% of forum recent postings (20080618-20080729), and keep you posted.

Maybe Joomlart has not had a chance to change the older template, yet. Or, I hope it will just implement it in the new templates, from hereon.

Frankly, I have no burning desire to use any of the newer templates at the moment. But, I wonder if this could be reversed engineered.

So here are some questions:

Autoregistration
Has anyone tried to install Nagya, and get their domain autoregistered?

Neutralization
Has someone tried to “deactivate” the key scripts and see if it will affect how the installed site?
Slowdown, not work at all, etc.

Other hidden scripts or directories
How do we exhaust the possibilities and be certain that there are no other files or directories where the “Call Home” codes may be hidden?
Are there other ways that the”Call Home” function may be implemented?

I have more questions but these are good starting point.

I cannot answer some of the questions myself because I already registered all my domains already.

Thanks.

Cornelio

[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266363

mj,
In my opinion as I stated many times it if not else unethical. To top it off if they insist using it, the place is in Admin not the front page. What the gain is a back link from all our sites to them and that is a good thing according to the Search Engines and you get top ratings with for instance Google.
This is the same thing with JAHigslide powered by….
This is BTW a third party extension that has the same thing but to the original developer. Is that ethical?
We on the other hand will get penalized for having an outbound link as our ratio in bound / out bond links will get lower.

<em>@mj1256 74760 wrote:</em><blockquote>I don’t like that, and I don’t think any 3rd party joomla supplier such as JA should under any circimstances have access to our sites or user base without our expressed consent.

what they are saying is that they own the template forever, even after we paid for it, and because of that, they have the right to everything attached to its usage.</blockquote>

This is also a BIG issue of any kind of license.
Check your Windows program license for instance. It normally states the word USER LICENSE. Giving you the right to use the program and the underlying code. The developing company is the OWNER of it.

I don’t know the JA license I just assumed it was the same.

Bosse

[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266364

Cornelio and others,

As VisiGod correctly stated. There is nothing calling this function at the moment. It just sits there as a lot of other dead meat.
But it could easily be used by a small change in index.php for instance. It could also be used by hacking a bit as VisiGod also stated by JA or someone else.
I don’t like to talk about what could be done with this as someone will probably try at least I am not the one pointing them to it.

Am I worried? Yes I am.

Bosse

PS you can just enclose the function with /* function code*/ or delete it and see what happens.

[VisiGod Friend VisiGodJoin date: January 2006Posts: 538Downloads:0Uploads:4 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 138 times in 18 posts]

#266366

Nothing 🙂

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