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[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266368

<em>@mj1256 74760 wrote:</em><blockquote>I don’t like that, and I don’t think any 3rd party joomla supplier such as JA should under any circimstances have access to our sites or user base without our expressed consent.

what they are saying is that they own the template forever, even after we paid for it, and because of that, they have the right to everything attached to its usage.</blockquote>

Technically, that is how many commercial softwares operate. Windows for example are strictly one computer per one Windows. Just consider the Vista where you have to buy a Vista even if you do not want it, so that you can install the older WindowsXP???

I was thinking, if I have an old WindowsXP???, why not just install it? But, Microsoft actually “estimates” the total number of computers in a commercial establishment for examplee, and demands that as much license of the Windows OS are bought.

And, MS gets away with it.

Joomla templates though may be different. However, I am not to conversant with the Open Source licensing so I am not sure whether the opinions posted here on Open Source are correct.

There are many commercial 3rd Party extensions for Joomla that I know use “restrictions”.

Frankly, this is the first time I have been concerned with the issue.

Cornelio

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266369

That was why I asked — considering there are thousands of files in hundreds of nested directories — how to you check when the said “Call Home” scripts are called?

The index.php is a likely place, but it could be done in a more complex manner. For example, the Joomlart footer required at least least four modules and the templates directory — some of these modules themselves comprise of subdirectories and files.

This is one the reasons why Joomla 1.5.x-Joomlart Template is very very very slow, like molasses, and I am as concerned with this. Five seconds is a lifetime in web browsing, and my Joomla 1.5.x-Joomlart Template, especially Teline II goes more than 10-20 seconds depending on the time of the day.

If they do similar round-about ways of hiding the “Call Home” function, it will slow the presentation further.

I am not too happy with this, and at some point, I would be interested to have more thorough discussion on Optimization in other threads. The studies by Yahoo have provided insights on factors that impact the speed of page presentation. I can take care of some, like possibly hacking the footer (forget modules there), the integration of CSS; but it is beyond me to implement the integration of scripts to miminimze the number of files called, and the convoluted nested directories searched.

Cornelio

[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266371

Cornelio,

About backdoors and call home code:
It is pretty easy to find if you are using a program like Dreamweaver ware you can do a global find on a directory / Folder or site.
You just look for ether .com, .org.net or an IP address or a port reference. A string saying POST or GET is also a good telltale if this is in a function including or calling something like:
“SELECT params from #__users WHERE id=$idmin”
You should really be aware
This could be worse like “SELECT * from #__users” (exposes al the info in your user table and all the data you have including username, email address, etc. The password is hashed but could be broken.
I don’t have to tell you how this could be used!
BosseP

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#266372

as for the windows reference, the answer is linux, and they get away with it because no one ever reads the EULA.

as for components, mods and templates with out going links, (especially the artio issue) don’t these people realize what those outbound links do to our SEO. Hiding links in code, scripts and comments is a big NO NO in the SEO world

I look for all that I can find and delete them. (I use textpad) SEO is hard enough without being defeated right from the “get go” by companies trying to promote themselves to the wrong audience by spamming links to their sites. They don’t even get it that the search engines penalize them for doing and the links are deprecated.

the users of my sites do not care or need to know who ja or any other provider is. they are not going to use these services or 3rd party component providers.

the target market audience is the web developer that used your template of component, and UM! DUH!, if the developer used it, you already hit your target audience.

lets face it
your car phones home to chevy
you can be tracked via your cell phone
the cable tv company knows what you watch and sells the data to advertisers
same for that grocery store card, its tracking purchases
same for your credit card, it places you at a specific location at a specific time
how about the ez-pay pass on the expressway, uncle sam knows your traveling habits

no….all of this is pointing to bigger issues than just the template licensing.

“tongue in cheek” :p
all of this is an invasion of our privacy. I think there should be a revolt, a revolution. we should gather together and create a declaration, or better yet, a bill of rights, a document , empowered by GOD, something that lays down a groundwork for civil union of internet users and developers, something that will become revered and respected over decades, something that could never be recinded or destroyed….o’yeah… we tried that all ready :((

[markb1439 Friend markb1439Join date: August 2008Posts: 124Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 14 Thanked: 34 times in 11 posts]

#266375

JA,

Please provide complete details ASAP.

This is concerning. It could even make sites (like mine) violate their own privacy policies…the part about taking adequate measures to protect users’ data. I couldn’t in good faith encourage my users to post their data on my server (especially things like credit card numbers stored in VirtueMart) if I have any doubt about the mechanisms used by my template supplier. It’s bad enough to just “phone home” to see if the domain is licensed. But it sounds as if there are mechanisms that can do much, much more than that. And I have to ask why.

There will always be piracy, and something like this won’t turn the pirates into paying customers. They will simply go elsewhere for their “free” templates. So this won’t increase your revenue, because the pirates are never going to pay anyway. This will only hurt your business by alienating your legitimate clients.

I am frankly concerned about what mechanisms are there and what data may be transmitted from my site without my knowledge. What if that data is intercepted in transit or otherwise falls into the wrong hands? This is a BIG concern, and rightfully so.

I started using Joomla templates to make life easier. Between all the necessary customizations and troubolshooting, and now worrying about this, I think I’m better off coding a template from scratch. That way I know there aren’t any back doors in it.

[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266376

mj,
I addressed this issue in 98 -99 as a guest speaker in a forum about the future of internet.
I will not bother you with the details (It was a 1,5 hour speech) but the essence was:

Jour mobile phone beeps with a message “don’t forget to by. Milk, your six-pack and dog food”
When you are a mile from your grocery (Val-Mart) store and then show’s you a map with directions to go there.

When you then get home and unpack your, milk and dogfood the fridge will tell you: Your idiot you forgot that six-pack!

No one believed me at that point but it is doable today and I have done it. Not altogether but in pieces.

<blockquote>lets face it
your car phones home to chevy
you can be tracked via your cell phone
the cable tv company knows what you watch and sells the data to advertisers
same for that grocery store card, its tracking purchases
same for your credit card, it places you at a specific location at a specific time
how about the ez-pay pass on the expressway, uncle sam knows your traveling habits

no….all of this is pointing to bigger issues than just the template licensing.</blockquote>

Sir Tim Berners Lee once said “God I created a monster” and I agree with him.

BosseP

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#266378

markb1439
excellent, that was so eloquently stated 😉

[markb1439 Friend markb1439Join date: August 2008Posts: 124Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 14 Thanked: 34 times in 11 posts]

#266380

mj,

I was inspired by your comments. 🙂

[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266382

Markb1439 and others,

I will promptly download all Templates and search them for all “call home” and other code that interact with another server than the one the template is stored on.

If I find any I will then post them in respective forum as long as I am a member in this Template club.

I can’t guarantee that I will catch everything so I urge my fellow user to help me in this quest.

I would also like to extend my thanks to mj1256 who raised the question about the registration first of all and solsikkehaven that mentioned the call-home for the first time, perdu who posted the code from the nagya template that really got me interested and and last but not least VisiGod that helped me interpret the code.

If I made a mistake or dident mentioned some one, please don burn me on a stick!

I hope this could help some people to sleep a little better.

BosseP

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#266405

so, did anyone see this post.
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/is-the-joomlart/

so how does one tell if this is a legitiment use of a template. I know the JA team can check the registry.

You know, I been thinking that as much as we don’t want to have the “phone home” feature, JA deos have a legitiment problem to deal with.

maybe we should try to come up with and suggest alternative solutions instead of just condemning what we think is going to happen.

so, alternatives to “phone home” that would help JA are;
1)
2)
3)
4)

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266481

“Call Home” Function

Unless I missed it, or it has been placed somewhere else, the Olivine Template does not seem to have the controbversial “Call Home” function.*** that seem to have been introduced in Nagya

If it turns out to be the case***, then this is very good news for those who want to use the Olivine Template.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266474

I posted this

Olivine does not seem to have the “Call Home” function
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/first-look/

in the Olivine forum — for reasons that should be obvious — as part of a first look review of the said template.

However, since I am not an expert or do not have the tools to investigate more deeply, if the “Call Home” scripts were placed elsewhere, I encourage others who have the skills and tools to investigate the issue further.

There are many ways to skin a cat. Preaching to the choir is not one of them.

Cornelio

[Hung Dinh Friend Hung DinhJoin date: September 2014Posts: 4408Downloads:11Uploads:189 Thanks: 309 Thanked: 3310 times in 3 posts]

#266483

Hi everyone,
After reading feedback about the upcoming changes in the domain manager, especially the automatically registered function, we decide that the so called “Call Home” feature will not be implemented in the upcoming system updates. We are searching for a better solution for the domain management and we will keep you updated as soon as we find one.

5 users say Thank You to Hung Dinh for this useful post

1. bossep
2. cgc0202
3. mj1256
4. markb1439
5. mayke

[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266484

<em>@Hung Dinh 74927 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hi everyone,
After reading feedback about the upcoming changes in the domain manager, especially the automatically registered function, we decide that the so called “Call Home” feature will not be implemented in the upcoming system updates. We are searching for a better solution for the domain management and we will keep you updated as soon as we find one.</blockquote>

I applaud your decision and if you like, the JA community is willing to work with you to find a solution!

I would, if you like us to.

Thanks again

BosseP

[bossep Friend bossepJoin date: April 2008Posts: 262Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 50 Thanked: 15 times in 3 posts]

#266488

Cornelio,
I did take a look at the Olivine template and dident find anything.
I also take Hung’s word for not using it.

Bosse

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