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[TomC Moderator TomCJoin date: October 2014Posts: 14077Downloads:58Uploads:137 Thanks: 948 Thanked: 3155 times in 2495 posts]

#264804

<em>@markb1439 72814 wrote:</em><blockquote>
The perception about JA seems to be that some of the templates are great, while others are not-so-great, or are simply rehashes of previous designs. In addition, JA support doesn’t have a particularly good reputation. The only saving grace is that JA currently gives twice the quantity of other services. That is your main competitive advantage.[/quote]
This is an individual opinion – one which I do not share. I have yet to see ANY Joomla Template Club that responds to member issues/questions at the drop of a hat and/or with any more frequency than JA (especially over the last several weeks). Further, JA’s competitiveness comes from the versatility of it’s template offerings. You simply don’t see such versatility at GavickPro, RocketTheme, YooTheme or YouJoomla.

markbSince people view you as inferior to other services in terms of quality and support, eliminating the extra value will eliminate any advantage you have over the other services. You will be viewed as the third-place choice in every respect.[/quote]
Again, this may be YOUR personal opinion – to which you are entitled.
Know, however, that there are many who do not share such a pessimistic view of things.

TomC wrote:

By cutting the number of templates in half, you are giving people only have as much incentive as they now have to subscribe to your service. And by adding automated licensing, you are giving people another huge reason to go elsewhere.

Again, somewhat short sighted on your part . . . JA’s advantage is the sheer versatility of the templates within it’s library – not to mention the additional extensions that JA offers.

TomC wrote:

Getting two templates per month was the number one reason I subscribed to your service. </blockquote>
Apparently, quantity is more important to you than quality.

[markb1439 Friend markb1439Join date: August 2008Posts: 124Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 14 Thanked: 34 times in 11 posts]

#264805

Quality may win over quantity, but if JA drops its quantity by half then it’s only offering the same thing its competitors offer.

I was suggesting that the only way for JA to have a competitive advantage is to offer quantity AND quality. Otherwise there is no compelling advantage to persuade people to go with them instead of RocketTheme or YOOtheme, which are perceived as offering equal or better quality, and better support. By offering the same quality and quantity as competitors (and possibly less support), JA cannot dominate this market. They have a perfect chance to dominate this market, but they can only do that by offering MORE than the competition…more quality, more quantity and better support. They have to be the best deal in all of those areas. Period.

Cutting the quantity in half is a step backward in terms of competitive advantage, especially with concerns over the quality of support.

[markb1439 Friend markb1439Join date: August 2008Posts: 124Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 14 Thanked: 34 times in 11 posts]

#264811

<blockquote>Again, this may be YOUR personal opinion – to which you are entitled.
Know, however, that there are many who do not share such a pessimistic view of things.</blockquote>

It’s not really my opinion, it is the perception I see in many forums. I actually think the forums are often wrong, for example RocketTheme often gets kudos for its quality and support, but I was very unimpressed. I was simply saying that any business needs to respond to the way its products and services are perceived, whether those perceived qualities are real or not.
<blockquote>
Again, somewhat short sighted on your part . . . JA’s advantage is the sheer versatility of the templates within it’s library – not to mention the additional extensions that JA offers.</blockquote>

JA has a good collection of templates and extensions, but so do the other services. The services are all quite similar in their offerings, actually.

<blockquote>Apparently, quantity is more important to you than quality.</blockquote>

You are wrong to assume that about me. JA appeared to offer twice as many high-quality templates as the competitors. If they said, “Two templates a month…but not all high quality,” then you could say that I favored quality over quantity. But JA seemed to offer twice as many good templates as the competition. And I actually subscribed to RocketTheme and YOOtheme (still a member) before joining JA. I actually thought those two services offered better quality overall, even if only half the quantity. Then I noticed a couple of JA templates I liked, but I couldn’t justify spending money on yet another subscription…except that the quantity made up for that objection. So your assumption that I prefer quantity over quality is completely wrong. If I valued quantity over quality, why was JA my THIRD CHOICE, even with twice as many templates?

I’m merely saying that quantity has been JA’s best selling point. When people decide to join a club, they evaluate a number of things: quality, support, quantity. Even if JA is comparable to the other clubs in every respect, quantity is the major advantage they have.

You can criticize my opinion all you want, but the simple fact is that businesses get successful by offering clients a reason to choose them instead of choosing competitors. JA is comparable to its competitors in every respect except quantity. And by cutting that in half, they are removing the main factor differentiating them from the competition.

You call me short-sighted, but it’s much more short-sighted for a company to cut in half what it offers its clients…especially when that has been the major competitive advantage, and when that decision could result in lost revenue that could have been directed into keeping the quantity what it was.

My point is this: If JA cuts quantity in half (even if the remaining templates are all good quality), they eliminate the main competitive advantage. If they instead figured out a way to keep the quantity where it is and make sure the quality is good, they could clearly be the best value in every way.

What if Chevrolet announced that future cars would be the same price but would be smaller, with less horsepower and fewer features…but the quality would be good? People would laugh them out of business. The way to succeed in business is not to offer customers less for the same price. People say that this move by JA will ensure quality. I say that if JA has been offering two templates a month all this time, it was a reasonable expectation that both of those templates should have been high quality anyway. They didn’t say, “One good template and one mediocre template per month.” So, no matter what, this move is a step backward in what they are offering for the price.

[TomC Moderator TomCJoin date: October 2014Posts: 14077Downloads:58Uploads:137 Thanks: 948 Thanked: 3155 times in 2495 posts]

#264834

<em>@markb1439 72830 wrote:</em><blockquote>
JA has a good collection of templates and extensions, but so do the other services. The services are all quite similar in their offerings, actually.[/quote]
Perhaps – but each club tends to offer something a little different than the others.
For JA, I believe it to be the versatility of it’s templates for a wide variety of themes and purposes.

Many of the other template clubs offer templates focused on a particular single theme – which is fine, but a bit less versatile.

<em>@markb1439 72830 wrote:</em><blockquote>
I’m merely saying that quantity has been JA’s best selling point. When people decide to join a club, they evaluate a number of things: quality, support, quantity. Even if JA is comparable to the other clubs in every respect, quantity is the major advantage they have.[/quote]
Again, this is a personal opinion – and that’s fine. I do not share such an assessment, as I believe JA”s strengths lay in the versatility of the templates they create.

<em>@markb1439 72830 wrote:</em><blockquote>You call me short-sighted, but it’s much more short-sighted for a company to cut in half what it offers its clients…especially when that has been the major competitive advantage, and when that decision could result in lost revenue that could have been directed into keeping the quantity what it was.[/quote]
Perhaps you have been missing the number of posts that some members create complaining about how they felt that quality had gone downhill and that each subsequent template was looking like one of the templates before. Posts like these were getting annoying and there were several polls posted to the membership about whether or not they feel that JA should switch to one quality template a month versus two. ONE template per month was the hands down winner in all instances of the poll. (If you didn’t vote in the poll or if yours was a minority vote, I’m sorry).

QUALITY over quantity is always a winning strategy.

[markb1439 Friend markb1439Join date: August 2008Posts: 124Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 14 Thanked: 34 times in 11 posts]

#264836

<blockquote>QUALITY over quantity is always a winning strategy.</blockquote>

True, but quality AND quantity is an even better strategy. Give your clients that and the competition won’t stand a chance.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#264885

Sorry for the delayed response to thank Hung and the Joomlart Staff, I have been occupied.

From the beginning, I have been an ardent supporter of the one template per month because I believe that with the current resources, Joomlart should devote more of its time to improving the support in the Forum and I hope improved literature (Manual, tutorials, FAQs), constant update, etc. That was a very “bruising” debate the first time around, before I disappeared in early February. However, I knew that the “one template per month” was ahead.

When I came back in mid May, I was dismayed that the issue has not been resolved yet, so I decided to re-awaken interest on the matter:

Another vote: One template vs two templates
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/another-vote-one-template-vs-two-templates/

Apathy is the greatest enemy of any clamor for reforms. So, I am not sure whether the above campaign made as much difference. At any rate, it kept the issue alive. Whether it affected the decision of Joomlart is another matter.

I wish the implementation had been sooner, but I understand the perspective of Joomlart.

Advertisement clarification

I echo the comment of others here that the advertisement of Joomlart in the

Templates Club
http://www.joomlart.com/

be clarified. If Joomlart does not want to emphasize it, then at least place it as a fine print — including a footnote perhaps to the Announcement:

Important changes to the JA Templates Club

http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/important-changes-to-the-ja-templates-club/

The aforementioned Announcement must be made a sticky also in both the

News and Announcements Forum
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/forum/news-and-announcements/

and the

Pre-Sales Questions Forum
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/forum/pre-sales-questions/

These pre-emptive moves would prevent any potential criticisms when September 2009 arrives.

Cornelio

[fowler21 Friend fowler21Join date: March 2007Posts: 48Downloads:2Uploads:1 Thanks: 5 Thanked: 4 times in 1 posts]

#264886

No no no !!!!

I really like having two templates a month.

I suggest to release 2 or maybe even 3 templates a month.

Why dont you hire more people and double or even triple the price of using Joomlart Template.

I could easily pay 1000 USD a year for the work provided by Joomlart. It’s worth it.

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#264892

installing automated licensing is a regretful business decision.

I also install on subdomains and testing domains for client moclups, so this will not work for me.

even my development server is online, so that won’t even be a workaround

please do not do this

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#264893

Hi Mark,

Since I first joined in early August 2007, my very first few posts include my thoughts on how Joomlart could improve its templates and support. For example, in one of my very first posts when I joined:

Teline Template and the iJoomla Portal News
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/teline-template-and-the-ijoomla-portal-news/

focused on how to improve the original Teline, which by the way, I found to be the best news template at the time — after I have done my assignment and looked at all the available news templates offered as of 2007.

For my own needs, the original Teline Template was the reason why I joined Joomlart, and Joomlart was my first choice after viewing all the templates I found among the more popular templates companies — Joomlart, Gavick Pro, RocketTheme — as far as news templates were concerned.

Whether my aforementioned post led to Teline II — the first true magazine template and the most popular Joomlart template — it does not matter; that Joomlart created it, and was the first among the template companies to do it was the reason why I came back to Joomlart in mid May. You will find in the Teline II forum that I was quite critical too.

I gained a “reputation” early on because I did not cower or simply accepted the suggestions of the Moderators and known members. And, if you ever read the

Official JoomlArt Website – Feedback/Information Forum
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/forum/official-joomlart-website-feedbackinformation/

you will find that I have not been shy in posting my views when it comes to the practices of Joomlart. At the same time, while I am critical of Joomlart, I was equally critical of fellow members when I thought their criticism of Joomlart were offbase.

If ever I posted though, I like to think that they were constructive rather than simply criticizing. Whether Hung or Joomlart staff ever reads my posts is another story. However, the issues that i care for and posted here are being adopted:

1. The creation and improvements of Teline II
2. The adoption of “one template per month”
3. The creation of the JA News component extension
4. The revision of the Joomlart Forum Intro
5. The recent improvement in the response support in the Forum
6. The decision of Joomlart to update Teline II before all the other templates

and more. That is what matters to me. And, I think Joomlart adopted them because there are many members who have shared the same thoughts.

Do I think Joomlart is perfect then? NO. In fact, when I have more time, I will post another “feedback” on how I think Joomlart may further help improve their services to customers.

I point these because I may share some of your concerns but at the same time, I beg to differ in a number of the rationale of your positions or your observations. When I have time, I shall post them here.

It is unlikely that Joomlart will ever be able to satisfy my needs or agree to all my suggestions or those of other members. Whatever you and I feel, Joomlart has to make a decision based from what they would consider to be in the best interest of the company. Paramount to this would be satisfying their customers — even if they might lose some in the process.

Cornelio

[TomC Moderator TomCJoin date: October 2014Posts: 14077Downloads:58Uploads:137 Thanks: 948 Thanked: 3155 times in 2495 posts]

#264894

<em>@fowler21 72934 wrote:</em><blockquote>
I suggest to release 2 or maybe even 3 templates a month.
</blockquote>
There were too many (annoying) complaint threads about the lack of quality of JA templates – either they were not innovative enough or some felt they were too similar to former templates (yadda yadda yadda). These threads were appearing like clockwork upon each release date.

Hence, forum polls were posted and votes taken – each time resulting in the majority (who bothered to vote) wanting to try a one-a-month release schedule toward improving the quality of JA Template releases (i.e. innovation, as few bugs as possible, etc.)

Therefore, I applaud Hung and his crew for listening to the voice of the JA Membership and giving the one-a-month release schedule a go. Let’s see if the purpose for such works and if the overall and consistent quality of the JA Templates improves as hoped.

Here’s an idea that I do not see any other Template Clubs offering . . . what if Hung were to post a monthly poll (at the beginning of each month) with a list of potential template theme ideas? The membership can vote on the theme they would most like to see developed next – thus providing the membership with something special to look forward to each month.

😎

[terp Friend terpJoin date: May 2008Posts: 40Downloads:161Uploads:0 Thanks: 2 Thanked: 1 times in 1 posts]

#264904

<em>@tcraw1010 72791 wrote:</em><blockquote>Would love to see YOU try to create something better.</blockquote>

I never claimed to be a template designer. I was merely pointing out that month after month, in an effort to rush 2 templates out each month, we are usually presented with a repackaged ‘oldie but goodie.’

I don’t like Ford releasing the same new car every year repackaged into a new name; that doesn’t mean I can build cars better than Ford. Nice logical fallacy, craw.

As for better, I’ll keep that to myself, but the repackaged templates are Ford Focus quality; there are cadillac templates out there…fresh, original, and not repackaged stuff from years gone by.

Thanks for playing, though.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#264907

<em>@mj1256 72942 wrote:</em><blockquote>installing automated licensing is a regretful business decision.

I also install on subdomains and testing domains for client moclups, so this will not work for me.

even my development server is online, so that won’t even be a workaround

please do not do this</blockquote>

Hi mj,

I personally have my own concerns about the “phoning home” as the other customer stated, but for a different reason — privacy.

But, let us be frank about the issue. In an ideal world, there is no need for automated registration. I wonder though how many members took the time to register their sites. And, that is the problem and more that I do not have to spell out.

In this context, I understand Joomlart’s perspective on the matter.

If there is a mechanism where the “phoning home” feature can be deleted after the installation — much like the “installation folder” has to be removed after the installation — then I have less concern about the automated registration. I do not want Joomlart to have have indefinite access to any site that I create.

There are several solutions to the issue of limited licensing:

1. A subdomain is not considered separate from the main domain — that is counted as one.

That is how I interpreted the licensing.

2. Is there really need for a subdomain to do a mockup?

Again, I assume that you can install “infinite” number of separate demo sites for different accounts, and it will not violate the license. They will not be root installation but since they are just mockups, what does it matter?

3. If a client has already agreed to have the Demo in their site, I assume that the cost for the license should be passed to the client?
4. Get a developer account? 🙂

This will eliminate the need for all the workarounds since you can. I assume each of your clients pay you more than $500 per site creation?

Unless Joomlart changes its very restrictive licensing provisions — 3 domains for 1-year membership or 10 domains for 5-year membership, I do not see how a regular Joomlart member could have multiple sites for themselves, or have clients — without violating the Joomlart licensing policy.

To my knowledge, RocketTheme has the similar licensing restriction. Gavick Pro does not. I do not know about other companies.

Cornelio

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#264908

<blockquote>Unless Joomlart changes its very restrictive licensing provisions — 3 domains for 1-year membership or 10 domains for 5-year membership, I do not see how a regular Joomlart member could have multiple sites for themselves, or have clients — without violating the Joomlart licensing policy.</blockquote>

this certainly does not suit a web developer

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#264911

If I ever posted many many critical posts about Joomlart, they were constructive criticism. It comes from the perspective that I like the few templates of Joomlart (not all of them) — and willing to share my thoughts with Joomla so that they may make some changes. Why spend the time? Because at the stage I joined, I do not have the skills and the aesthetic talent to do what Joomlart could do

If you really do not like Joomlart templates, why did you even join? Did you do your assignment looking at the template choices of the template companies before joining?

Why waste money and spend so much time complaining if Joomlart is just your third choice? Or, if Joomlart is a lost cost? Last January when I was not making any headway with Joomlart during the transition from Joomla 1.0x to Joomla 1.5x — I stopped posting and decided to join another company.

After looking at the various options, I found the Gavick News template to be suitable for my purpose. Based on the exchange rate, I paid almost the equivalent of a year’s Joomlart subscription to have access to that single Gavick Pro news template. My membership in Joomlart was still active at the time, but I did not spend my time posting in the Joomlart forum to suggest that Gavick is much better than Joomlart. Each template company has their own strengths, and weaknesses.

I just did not participate completely in the Joomlart forum during the period that I was occupied with Gavick Pro. But, when Joomlart created Teline II, I came back in mid May because no other template company, as of May 2008 has created a similar template. I was given a tip in private that. RocketTheme would come out with a Magazine template but when their version came out, it was not to my taste. If Gavick Pro or any other company would come out with a better template that I need — then I would not mind spending the extra money to get the template.

Let us be practical $70 or whatever most of us paid is not really a lot of money. If a Joomlart staff would spend two hours answering each of our questions — at $50 per hour, the going rate for webdesigners here in the US that I know of — they are losing money.

It is true that the problem lies in Joomlart not providing adequate manual and tutorial; plus even good templates, like Teline II have many bugs. To users of Teline II though, since its release there was much progress done — enough to encourage me to shift from the more stable Joomla 1.0.xx to the Joomla 1.5.x version of Teline II.

As much as I deplored the lack of support in the fixing of the “bugs” in Teline II, we have to acknowledge though that more recently more staff, like Hainn have taken the time to be more responsive.

There are more that Joomlart should do and can do — and I hope they will do more.

It is worth pointing that, as much as Joomlart could be faulted; as pointed out by others, many of the Forum prolbems being asked are not issues about the Joomlart template but inherent problems of Joomla; and more importantly due to our lack of the needed skills to create a website — for example simple stuff like html, CSS, basic understanding of how a server works, etc.

The aforementioned criticisms are misplaced, if Joomlart cannot or will not respond to them. ither ask Joomla or go to Forums that address issues beyond the scope of the Template.

And, if we cannot find one such site, there is no reason that would prevent us from creating a different venue to answer questions that are due to our limitations not having the skills or being prepared to create or become webmasters of a website. Hypothetically, all the information needed are in the internet or written in books (go to the library).

What we need is the determination and devote the time to learn them. And, if possible to have others guide us towards this goal — to learn and not just expecting others to do the work for us.

Cornelio

[TomC Moderator TomCJoin date: October 2014Posts: 14077Downloads:58Uploads:137 Thanks: 948 Thanked: 3155 times in 2495 posts]

#264913

<em>@terp 72956 wrote:</em><blockquote>I
I don’t like Ford releasing the same new car every year repackaged into a new name; that doesn’t mean I can build cars better than Ford. Nice logical fallacy, craw.[/quote]
Ironic – since you just posted a logical fallacy.

Your assertion about “repackaging” is only as solid as it is accurate. The value of JA Templates are their versatility across a wide spectrum of uses – which is evidenced by many of the sites we see within the Member Showcase and Site fo the Month threads. JA isn’t about overdone flair or limited theme templates …. thus, re-inventing various extensions and utilizing them in a new template is not necessarily “repackaging.”

To use YOUR analogy . . . . when Ford releases a new model of an existing line (such as the Mustang), the outer shell may be different, but the inner workings are still the same becaus that is what makes the car run. Similarly, JA changes things around with the template layout (shell), but the engine that drives it is still the Joomla CMS.

Your opnion as to “repackaging” is just that … YOUR opinion – nothing more.

Thanks for playing, though.

😎

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