JoomlArt Forums 32,862 posts

[TomC Moderator TomCJoin date: October 2014Posts: 14077Downloads:58Uploads:137 Thanks: 948 Thanked: 3155 times in 2495 posts]

#266807

<em>@gazoline 75176 wrote:</em><blockquote>in this matter, I just bought 1 year membership and after that, I can’t download a lot of things because I have -61 credits:eek:

sorry for my time here…</blockquote>
Well, you know how to get more points, right ?

Simply be helpful within the community on the Message Boards and your points will accumulate. 😀

[mfcphil Friend mfcphilJoin date: September 2007Posts: 2866Downloads:3Uploads:218 Thanks: 211 Thanked: 388 times in 133 posts]

#266862

<em>@gazoline 75176 wrote:</em><blockquote>in this matter, I just bought 1 year membership and after that, I can’t download a lot of things because I have -61 credits:eek:

sorry for my time here…</blockquote>

2 posts in 2 years will do that to you :confused:

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266984

How many times do I have to bring to the attention of Joomlart that the current point system does not really reward people who actually help other people?

The intention is good, and the moment I read about it when I came back, I understood why Joomlart implemented it. However, the point system, as currently configured to implement the policy, does not reward those who actually help other people.

Unless the rules are changed even one liner postings or posting with no value at all to helps others — can get you a developer license eventually, without the individual doing any good service that deserves to be thanked.

I suggested a number of modifications before, but it has fallen on deaf ears.

Cornelio
.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266985

See Here I consider this is a useful response from a post of mfcphil. but there was no official Thank You

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266987

8354-8332=22 => Net points for post #18.

1 user says Thank You to cgc0202 for this useful post

1. gazoline

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266989

Included below is a verbatim copy of a feedback that generated controversy that elicited responses criticizing the post and counter-criticism to the criticisms. It also got a “Thank You” — earning the poster credits for the post and the “Thank You”, in spite of the inaccuracies of the allegations.

I criticized the post very harshly, not because I disagreed with the poster, but more because of the inaccurate allegations. And for that I got three Thank You’s (so far)..

Personally, while customers should be encouraged to express their views, in agreement or opposition to a feedback, these “responses” must be recorded in a post as “Agree” or “Disagree” — with no credit points earned — and must not categorized with a “Thank You” for the credit system. If the aforementioned suggestion is adopted, the above three Thank You’s that I got for criticizing someone should not get any credit at all.

Similarly, there are people who are so liberal with their Thank You’s at the drop of hat, and in turn get reciprocal Thank You’r.

Lumping “agreement” to an opinion as “Thank You’s” devalues the services of those who actually helped other customers solve their problems.

Cornelio

<blockquote>STOP !!!!!

I was one of the first congratulating the Joomlart team for the decision of switching from 2 to 1 template per month at the condition we would have better quality.

And JA olivine is… just a shame !!! Nothing new. More than basic ! Equivalent to any free template around !

And now I read that you plan to implement a licensing system with “call home” systems in the template ???!!!

So I say STOP .

I completetely change my mind and ask to be reimbursed or at least compensate immediatly.

We are NOT talking about an open source community where everyone contribute here. We talk about a professional service we PAID for. And the initial contract was clear and mentioned a certain number of templates accessible before the end of the membership. Moreover, it indicates NO licensing or “call home” system.

So I WANT:

– a prologation of my membership so that it corresponds to the number of templates I paid to have.
– the immediate stop of any talk or attempt to implement any call home system or encrypted file INSIDE the template

I am not kidding and am really serious. I am a CUSTOMER who paid for a service and I WANT the service I paid for and no change in the contract in the middle of my membership. If not, I ask to be reimbursed of the totality of the membership or I plan to sue you for false advertising.

I can not beleive some of you planned to “help” and create a “community”. Come on ! What do we pay for ???</blockquote>

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266991

Reponse post that lead to a “new solution” to a problem deserves more credit than q post that simply point to a link, with the providing the solution to the problem.

An example of a new solution would be the example below provided by Hainn. Apart from Hainn, Mwnalto is another person who deserves higher credits for a number of Thank You’s for actually solving problems. This is true also for some bug fixes provided by customers like Omarram, VisiGod, and others.

Cornelio

<em>@hainn84 75381 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hi cgc0202 !
you can change layout of hot topic module from vertical to horizontal following way below :
Open ja_catslwi.css file in modules/mod_ja_catslwi/mod_ja_catslwi folder , find following code section at about line 1 :


.ja-catslwi {
margin:0 0 14px;
padding:0;
position:relative;
}


change to :


.ja-catslwi {
display:block;
float:left;
margin:0 2px 14px;
padding:0;
position:relative;
width:140px;
}

</blockquote>

[mfcphil Friend mfcphilJoin date: September 2007Posts: 2866Downloads:3Uploads:218 Thanks: 211 Thanked: 388 times in 133 posts]

#266995

Cornelio

While I see where your coming from, it seems a little odd that you continue to amass lots of extra points by repeating yourself in all these posts.

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#266997

<blockquote>Personally, while customers should be encouraged to express their views, in agreement or opposition to a feedback, these “responses” must be recorded in a post as “Agree” or “Disagree” — with no credit points earned — and must not categorized with a “Thank You” for the credit system</blockquote>

I agree with this developing concept. Thank you has become too general a term.

I also have clicked the thank you button to show my support of a comment, and I have thanked people for actually providing solutions to problems.

so…I support the agree and and disagree buttons in addition to the thank you button, but….I think credits should still be awarded as its is still participation in the forum and that alway needs to be encouraged.

[questbg Friend questbgJoin date: May 2008Posts: 1912Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 146 Thanked: 339 times in 197 posts]

#266998

<em>@mj1256 75522 wrote:</em><blockquote>I also have clicked to thank you button to show my support of a comment, and I have thanked people for actually providing solutions to problems.
</blockquote>

Me too. I have thanked, and I have been thanked.

Surely a ‘thanks’ for a comment/suggestion/vote in poll of the month/etc., should carry less weight than a ‘thanks you solved my problem and saved my life’ type of thanks!

Could not we integrate a ‘level’ of thanks or different ‘thanks’ buttons to make the point thingummy a bit fairer?

After all, a post like this deserves nothing, solving somebody’s real problem does.

A thanks for saying ‘I agree’, or ‘your site looks nice’ again, deserves less than a ‘thanks you solved my problem’.

Interesting …

Discuss!!
🙂

Chris

[jwellman Friend jwellmanJoin date: April 2008Posts: 543Downloads:0Uploads:6 Thanks: 115 Thanked: 59 times in 21 posts]

#267001

Personally, I think it is a polite way to show appreciation and participation on the forum. I have not really thought of the system being “unfair” and I think the “Thank You” argument is rather ridiculous. I don’t agree with people abusing the forum, for example other members thanking each other just to rank up points, but I really don’t see a lot of that going on.

Some people may write an entire book (not mentioning names here) 🙂 and I can say the same thing in one or two sentences and get the same job done. Does that make my help any less creditable?

Give it a rest folks!

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#267014

<em>@mfcphil 75519 wrote:</em><blockquote>Cornelio
While I see where your coming from, it seems a little odd that you continue to amass lots of extra points by repeating yourself in all these posts.</blockquote>

mfcphil,

That is my whole point in these series of posts. For example, your post that I quoted here might have earned you an extra 6-11 points.

In an actual example, I a single line I posted called “11 points for being flippant”: <em>@cgc0202 75249 wrote:</em><blockquote>8,131-8,120= 11 points for a one liner</blockquote>

to prove this point earned 11 points. The post was nonsense, useless, did not help anyone and gained your wrath, or at least a frown from you:)

How many points does an official Thank you get? 15 points That’s it.

No official Thank You for a problem solved

The travesty is that I have read many posts that deserved a Thank You, but will not get the extra credit because the person who requested for help never thanked the person who actually solved the problem.

I should know, I have many responses where I helped but did not receive the official Thank You. I consider it tacky to be including a comment to the effect stating — “Please click the Official Thank You if you received help.

In some cases where I was involved to solve a problem, sometimes it takes several hours. The longest was one where I spent almost two days (see Note 1) — because I actually have to install a Joomla 1.5.x – Teline II.

1. I had to reproduce the problem.
2. Found a solution..
3. Wrote a detailed procedure.
4. In retrospect, I found the solution too complex, it is likely to be messed up by someone who is not so familiar with Teline II so I went back to the drawing board
5. I thought of a simpler solution and tested it
6. When I was sure it will work, I wrote a detailed procedure

I had double vision and a terrible migraine, after I finished, because I worked non-stop and just a short nap. I wanted to post the easier solution before he read my complex solution. Fortunately, I think it was a weekend. When I woke up early evening. He responded that it solved the problem — and showed his revised page.

To put it in context, Joomlart charges $40 to install a Joomla-Joomlart Template. I can do the actual QuickStart Instalaltion in 5 minutes while watching TV. Add a few minutes for the database and user setup. The rest are routine.

I did get an official Thank You there — 15 points for two days work. But, you and I and everyone else get 6-11 points or thereabout for just telling someone we approve or disapprove their posting — or doubt their motives.

It is very possible therefore that one can get a developer membership if they post enough — even if they did not help anyone. That is the reason why I posted this here again. Why?

Some people who responded above did not understand fully how the credit system works.

http://www.joomlart.com/forums/showpost.php?p=75176&postcount=15

Instead of being provided the links to explain the point system, the responses were either nebulous, or inaccurate. The responses is what triggered my series of posts here.

You and I and many people know the credit system is flawed.

Or, at least I hope you guys sees the flaws the way I see them. I have demonstrated several times already that you do not have to help anyone and get enough points. You can be the equivalent of a parasite, one who depends on others but not helping in return, and still get enough points.

http://www.joomlart.com/forums/showpost.php?p=75254&postcount=15

The credit system needed to be reformed.

Otherwise, the current system is an insult to those who actually are helping people. Helping people is something that should be done mainly by paid staff, or something that will not be needed, if each template comes with a good manual, if there are no beta releases of templates to the general membership (this practice is the reason for most of the unwanted “problem” posts) and if template fixes are provided regularly to correct errors that came from beta templates.

Cornelio

Note 1: At the time, I was not using it because the Joomla 1.5.x – Teline II had quite a number of bugs that explained the thousands of threads in the Teline II that were unresolved until late July –more than two months after Teline II was released. That is how long the “beta stage” for Teline II. There are still some problems, but not ones that cause fatal errors.

At least there was a proper thank you there. However, I have read many posts where no official Thank You’s were given, a recent example where I was involved is this:

http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/position-module/

it took five pages, because Victor does not understand English well. I stepped in only when Hainn, who has helped provide the script fixes for many of the most difficult problems associated with Teline II was unable to find the problem. His initial solution I thought was not the answer, and I had to prove it myself in my site before I had the guts to “contradict Hainn”.

[TomC Moderator TomCJoin date: October 2014Posts: 14077Downloads:58Uploads:137 Thanks: 948 Thanked: 3155 times in 2495 posts]

#267017

I wonder how many points he amassed with that oratory.

😉

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#267018

<em>@jwellman 75526 wrote:</em><blockquote>Personally, I think it is a polite way to show appreciation and participation on the forum. I have not really thought of the system being “unfair” and I think the “Thank You” argument is rather ridiculous. I don’t agree with people abusing the forum, for example other members thanking each other just to rank up points, but I really don’t see a lot of that going on.
</blockquote>

It is not all about Thank You’s, jwellman. I am talking about the basis of the credit system.

The first month I came back, I recognized the problem right away. To use my points as example, I already have a total for two and a half years of Developer membership credits — already earning points (2400 points and counting) for 2011, if Joomlart will continue to honor the credit system as is configured. And to be frank, I did not earn those credits from writing what would amount to a book.

I should not complain therefore but I find the system unfair for people like Menalto or Hainn who actually deserve much much more credit points than is reflected in their credits — because many of their posts led to actual solutions to problems. If Hainn is not a Joomlart staff, he is not given enough credits proportionate to the value of the help he provided.

<em>@jwellman 75526 wrote:</em><blockquote>
Some people may write an entire book (not mentioning names here) 🙂 and I can say the same thing in one or two sentences and get the same job done. Does that make my help any less creditable?
</blockquote>

That’s why you will be a better writer than I can ever be, if you can put in one sentence what may take me a thousand words.

And what you stated is part of the point I am trying to get across. That was why I quoted the “two-word” response of mfcphil above. it got the job done, but got no Thank You. So, no credit for him based on the automated Joomlart credit system, as currently configured.

However, your point on brevity does not address the basic flaw of the current Joomlart credit system. In fact, it encourages both one liners and verbosity. And it rewards any posts irrespective if they are worthwhile or not.

There are actually “comments” system (not sure if it applies to Forums) that will limit the number of words allowed for each post, or, how many posts one can perform per unit time, if those are concerns to you. In my case, since I do not control the forum rules, I just focus on threads that interest me.

Cornelio

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#267020

<em>@tcraw1010 75547 wrote:</em><blockquote>I wonder how many points he amassed with that oratory.

;)</blockquote>

A long post (12-22 points) is not too far from the above comment (6-11 points range) , and the quoted one liner comment gets almost the same weight as an official Thank You note (15 points).

In terms of the current Joomlart credit system therefore — it is more “productive” to post one liners than long posts. Got it? Or, will it help answer your question to provide another personal demonstration (with actual point received), using your own posts, as examples? But, I am sure, if such a clarification is what you really wanted to achieve with your comment, you could perform the test yourself.

If you need further guidance: Try a sequence of at least six (6) one liners to get a better average. And try similar number of what you refer to as “oratories”. That will get you better average estimates than the range I provided here. And, if you wish to be more precise in scientific sense, I will try to get a statistical something protocol for you. Then, all your wondering will be resolved. Such an endeavor may prove useful to Joomlart, and persuade them to change the current credit system.

To avoid the aforementioned, in my proposed reform of the Joomlart credit system: Your one liner and what you call my “oratory” will not get any points. Such a policy, if adopted by Joomlart, will address the concern of mfcphil.

Cornelio

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