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[2Patrick Friend 2PatrickJoin date: July 2008Posts: 256Downloads:0Uploads:19 Thanks: 74 Thanked: 11 times in 1 posts]

#131703

Joomla On Rapid Fire

New Joomla versions are being released rapidly.

The Joomla developers are on fire!

In their own words “It has been nearly three weeks since Joomla! 1.5.4 was released on July 8, 2008. The Development Working Group ‘s goal is to continue to provide regular, frequent updates to the Joomla! community.

So how does it impact Joomla Art templates ?

Is it fair to expect JA to update the templates to the latest Joomla version ?

If we follow what the Joomla developers are saying, we would be expecting:

Month Version

Sept’08 J 1.5.6

Oct ’08 J 1.5.7

Nov ’08 J.15.8

Dec’08 J.1.5.9

By the end of the year, JA templates developed for J1.5.4 could have compatibility issues!

So what would JA’s strategy be? :((

[Hung Dinh Friend Hung DinhJoin date: September 2014Posts: 4408Downloads:11Uploads:189 Thanks: 309 Thanked: 3310 times in 3 posts]

#263622

That’s is really a touch schedule, not only for JA but for all other third party provider (templates, extensions)
However, we believe we can handle it well. All of our templates and included extensions are based on a simple but strong css framework if if there is any compatibility issues we can get the the framework updated and then apply them into the templates.

BTW, where do you have that timelines? Any URL?

[2Patrick Friend 2PatrickJoin date: July 2008Posts: 256Downloads:0Uploads:19 Thanks: 74 Thanked: 11 times in 1 posts]

#263675

Hi Hung

Thanks for the reply.

Its good to know that JA is on the top of things are the CSS etc are well developed!:)

I just postulated the timeline from the comments made on the Joomla home page.It seems as though the Jooma core group are confidant of new updates once every few weeks.
They were obviously delighted that 1.5.5 was released just 3 weeks after 1.5.4 -so there is every reason to believe this momentum is going to continue.

1 user says Thank You to 2Patrick for this useful post

1. Hung Dinh

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#263797

<em>@2Patrick 71361 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hi Hung

Thanks for the reply.

Its good to know that JA is on the top of things are the CSS etc are well developed!:)

I just postulated the timeline from the comments made on the Joomla home page.It seems as though the Jooma core group are confidant of new updates once every few weeks.
They were obviously delighted that 1.5.5 was released just 3 weeks after 1.5.4 -so there is every reason to believe this momentum is going to continue.</blockquote>

Joomla releases new versions only when needed. For actual history, check:

Joomla 1.5 version history

The rapid number of releases during the early stages is not suprising, mostly due to security flaws. Note for example that there was more than a two (almost three) month lag between Joomla 1.5.3 and Joomla 1.5.4. As it matures it is likely to releases less updates (see note below),, unless there are more secuirty flaws.

Note also that there was incompatibility delected between Joomla 1.5.3 and Joomla 1.5.4 as it pertains Teline II and there would have been no incompatibility with Joomla 1.5.5 had Joomlart not introduced an error with the script of Teline II v1.4, an error that was not found in earlier version of Teline II. Read later posts in

Upgraded to Joomla 1.5.5 now Ja News 3.1 Problem (Multi-page thread 1 2 3)

Again, one of those “beating the deadline” errors, not truly a scripting error — a problem that would not have arisen had Joomlart taken the time to realy “proof” any release before it becomes available for download.

Cornelio

N.B.

As a comparison, the more stable Joomla 1.0.15 has not be upgraded since February 2008. This was the reason why I preferred the Joomla 1.0.x early this year. However, I have since been moving to the Joomla 1.5.x later in July 2008 because many of the bugs with Teline II are better addressed. I just hope they do not introduce errors, that were never a problem in earlier versions.

[John Wesley Brett Moderator John Wesley BrettJoin date: July 2013Posts: 2142Downloads:17Uploads:26 Thanks: 175 Thanked: 645 times in 426 posts]

#263799

My thoughts…not that anybody asked….

I’m going to take 2Patrick’s postulating to heart as well as Cornelio’s correct recounting of recent history in trying to make a point that if both are correct…Joomla! is in for a rough future.

If 2Patrick’s rollout schedule prediction is correct, then I think it is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous, reckless and forebodes a rocky future for the ENTIRE Joomla! community.

While we may be concerned with JoomlArt keeping up with the changes…let’s not forget all the other developers, not only of templates, but also of the 3,000 + extentions, modules, plugins, etc that have become a real attraction to our OS platform. Those guys may soon start feeling the rath of angry and confused users when they realize their free or nearly free component or template all of a sudden starts to have issues after the latest, greatest upgrade.

How soon we forget the nearly year long catch up it took for developers to migrate their products to 1.5.0…and all the noise and complaining we heard until our 1.0 products caught up. No thought at all to the hours upon hours of “do over” work that had to be done.

So this schedule, if it stands, I fear, will lead to more complaints, TONS of complaints that will make the 1.5.0 switchover a picnic. And again from users who don’t understand the countless hours that go into coding.

But with such an ambitious rollout schedule, this time the complaints, I fear will drive developers to decide it’s just not worth the trouble and start dropping out or, heaven forbid, start developing for Drupal or WordPress who take a much more conservative approach to rolling out a product.

Yes Joomla! is HOT right now…and we should ride the wave. Lord knows it’s taken enough time and sweat to get to this point. But PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE slow it down with the releases. There are very few “bugs” that need swatting immediately and we don’t need a new release for every single one. We’re Open Source for goodness sakes…which means we need to be concerned with the WHOLE community, users & developers.

I, for one, would not wish Hung Dinh’s workload with each release. How many templates and components have to be recoded? It’s nuts…and God bless you for your work.

How soon we forget what can happen when a “can’t miss” product is rolled out too soon or too fast….only later to learn users can no longer USE THE PRODUCT. (insert memories of last month’s Apple iPhone 3G’s rollout…brilliant move…)
And now we stand to see this happen every month!

Rush, rush, rush makes for a VERY bad business cycle…and I fear problems for the Joomla! community as a whole. 🙁

Next…
John.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#263805

Hi John,

<em>@jbrett 71531 wrote:</em><blockquote>My thoughts…not that anybody asked….

I’m going to take 2Patrick’s postulating to heart as well as Cornelio’s correct recounting of recent history in trying to make a point that if both are correct…Joomla! is in for a rough future.

If 2Patrick’s rollout schedule prediction is correct, then I think it is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous, reckless and forebodes a rocky future for the ENTIRE Joomla! community.
</blockquote>

As Hung pointed out, if the initial adaptation of Joomlart to the Joomla 1.5.x was quite thorough and well “proofread” there should not be too much incompatibility between the Joomla upgrade and the Joomlart. As I pointed out above, had there been no “error” introduced in the Teline II v.14 (that was not found in the early version) there would have been no fix update needed for the Teline II (from Joomla 1.5.3 to Joomla 1.5.5). This may be the case with earlier Joomla 1.5.x, but I have not had a chance to try those.

<em>@jbrett 71531 wrote:</em><blockquote>
I, for one, would not wish Hung Dinh’s workload with each release. How many templates and components have to be recoded? It’s nuts…and God bless you for your work.
</blockquote>

This is a misnomer actually that recoding is needed for every upgrade. There is a “radical transition from Joomla 1.0x to Joomla 1.5x — if you consider the architecture of the two. Those developers who took the time to prepare upgrades beginning with the non-stable developer versions (beta, RC, etc.) of the Joomla 1.5.x were the ones who had their extensions ready almost from day one when Joomla 1.5.0 (stable version) was announced in mid January 2008.

In contrast, companies like iJoomla, that refused to act until a “stable” version of Joomla was announced took forever (some have not yet been able to do so) to provide Joomla 1.5.x compatible extensions.

<em>@jbrett 71531 wrote:</em><blockquote>
While we may be concerned with JoomlArt keeping up with the changes…let’s not forget all the other developers, not only of templates, but also of the 3,000 + extentions, modules, plugins, etc that have become a real attraction to our OS platform. Those guys may soon start feeling the rath of angry and confused users when they realize their free or nearly free component or template all of a sudden starts to have issues after the latest, greatest upgrade.
.</blockquote>

The solution to this is to be more careful with what extensions to use before integrating them into the “Joomla system”. The trouble with new users is that we are enamored with the “whistles and bells” extensions, and want to jam as many in our websites — because they are free and seem “interesting”

Quite often, these extensions are developed by a single person or a few with no support, very long lag period between upgrades, etc.

The question that we should ask before using any extension are these:

1. Do we really need the extension?.
2. How many people are behind the development of the extension?

This will affect the speed of upgrade in relation ot Joomla upgrade.

3. Does it have solid support, in terms of Forum, ticket system, history of upgrade, etc.?

and more.

I learned this lesson the hard way myself since I started using Joomla extensions. Now, I am more careful what to include.

<em>@jbrett 71531 wrote:</em><blockquote>
How soon we forget the nearly year long catch up it took for developers to migrate their products to 1.5.0…and all the noise and complaining we heard until our 1.0 products caught up. No thought at all to the hours upon hours of “do over” work that had to be done.

So this schedule, if it stands, I fear, will lead to more complaints, TONS of complaints that will make the 1.5.0 switchover a picnic. And again from users who don’t understand the countless hours that go into coding.

But with such an ambitious rollout schedule, this time the complaints, I fear will drive developers to decide it’s just not worth the trouble and start dropping out or, heaven forbid, start developing for Drupal or WordPress who take a much more conservative approach to rolling out a product.

Yes Joomla! is HOT right now…and we should ride the wave. Lord knows it’s taken enough time and sweat to get to this point. But PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE slow it down with the releases. There are very few “bugs” that need swatting immediately and we don’t need a new release for every single one. We’re Open Source for goodness sakes…which means we need to be concerned with the WHOLE community, users & developers.
.</blockquote>

Is more extensions really always better?

We sometimes get the mistaken impression that if we place enough “whistles and bells” it will Wow the visitors to explore our sites — eventually it is the content that matters and the one that will decide whether a target audience will visit, again and again, and again.

As indicated above, this is where users can make a difference. If users will “reward” quality extensions (and some of them are not free) the really useful extensions would prevail. They require a solid and dedicated team of developers, not single person operations. And, sometimes, they require support to survive.

<em>@jbrett 71531 wrote:</em><blockquote>
Rush, rush, rush makes for a VERY bad business cycle…and I fear problems for the Joomla! community as a whole. 🙁

Next…
John.</blockquote>

This is very true, and this is an issue that continue to haunt template companies like Joomlart, and other extensions developers that do not have sufficient and dedicated development team.

Cornelio

[John Wesley Brett Moderator John Wesley BrettJoin date: July 2013Posts: 2142Downloads:17Uploads:26 Thanks: 175 Thanked: 645 times in 426 posts]

#263899

I couldn’t agree more, Cornelio!

Though having been a past subscriber to other templating companies, I am quite satisfied with Joomlart in terms of response and quality.

JOhn.

[2Patrick Friend 2PatrickJoin date: July 2008Posts: 256Downloads:0Uploads:19 Thanks: 74 Thanked: 11 times in 1 posts]

#263987

Hi

Yes…I agree with John. We should give credit to Joomla Art and Hung etc .Imagine what would have been the situation if Joomla 1.5 was extremely stable at the time of release or 1.51 version stage and that no other versions had been released since then ! Hung and team could have then concentrated on getting the Teline II and others to a very high level of stability ….:)

I assisted a commercial CMS company to gain entry into the Singapore and Indian markets a couple of years ago. They were selling a base package for a cool US$500,000 and more . We should all be thankful for the hard working open source community .

Now all of us can have the opportunities to be on a level playing field as far as web publishing is concerned.

Joomla Art – Go for it ! We are behind you !

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