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[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#138380

before you all continue to beat up JA or anyone else over IE8 browser compatibility,

read this
Microsoft’s IE 8 Compatibility List: Is it working?

major sites are not compatiple
see list here
(Here is the list of the 2,400 sites that are on Version 1.0 of Microsoft’s Compatibility View list.)
Internet Explorer 8 (IE 8) is nearing the finish line, with a March release to manufacturing looking like a distinct possibility. But is IE 8 — or, more accurately — Web site developers and owners — really ready?

I have been testing IE 8 since the code became available publicly. And one thing that hasn’t changed much over the past several months is the fact that many Web sites still aren’t compatible with IE 8.

I’m not blaming the site owners here. Microsoft officials have known all along that even though the IE team is doing the “right” thing by finally making IE more standards-compliant, they are risking “breaking the Web” because the vast majority of Web sites still are written to work correctly with previous, non-standards-compliant versions of IE.

Microsoft has tried to mitigate the effects of moving to a default standards-based view in a few ways. IE 8 comes with a “Compatibility View” button that will “fix” a seemingly broken site if a user knows to press it. Microsoft went a step beyond this with IE 8 Release Candidate 1, issued in January, by adding a downloadable list of sites that would automatically trigger IE 8 to move directly to compatibility mode, rather than standards mode.

(Here is the list of the 2,400 sites that are on Version 1.0 of Microsoft’s Compatibility View list.)

The Compatibility View list includes some major sites — Apple.com, CNN.com, eBay, Facebook, Google.com, NYTimes.com — even Microsoft.com (!) — and lots, lots more. Users also have the option of adding IE-8-incompatible sites they visit that didn’t make it onto the list that will be appended to the schema list they download.

The Compatibility List has made my IE 8 browsing a lot more stable. When I go to the NYTimes.com site now, it just works. The Compatibility View button (the icon for which looks like a broken Web page and is typically located directly to the right of the URL address bar) doesn’t appear at all (as is the case for all sites on the Compatibility List).

That said, there are a lot of sites I visit that aren’t on the list. And more often than not, they fail to render correctly with IE 8. Sometimes I remember that I should try hitting the Compatibility View button to see if there are boxes and buttons and text there that I can’t see because I am using IE 8. Other times, when I am visiting a site with which I’m unfamiliar, I don’t realize what I’m missing.

I’m at the point now — if a site looks weird, is slow or just doesn’t seem to be working right — I simply assume it is IE 8’s fault. Sometimes I’m right (as I discover when I open the same site in Firefox or Chrome and it looks and works fine). Other times, I’m not — a site just might be down or broken. The bottom line is I’ve come to expect a rocky browsing experience when using IE 8.

I doubt the compatibility experience is going to change much, if at all, between now and the time IE 8 is released. For months, Microsoft has been banging the drum for site owners to update their code — either by adding compatibility tags or redoing sites to take into account the changes in IE 8. Many site admins and developers have said they weren’t willing to take on that task until Microsoft delivered a near-final test release — at least a Release Candidate.

Some critics have said they think Microsoft is doing a disservice to developers by offering compatibility work-arounds. They say Microsoft created its own problems by delivering previous IE releases that flouted standards — which is true. And now Microsoft should bite the bullet and just go the 100-percent-standards route, they reason. That might be a better course in the long run for Web developers tired of having to do separate versions of sites and apps for standards-based browsers and for IE, but it punishes Web users in the interim.

What’s going to happen when IE 8 goes final and non-techie users have it pushed to them or get new PCs with IE 8 preloaded? I wouldn’t be surprised to see further losses in IE market share, as frustrated users find only some of their favorite Web sites displaying correctly but don’t really understand why. Perhaps Opera and its chums won’t need the antitrust courts to get a leg up on Microsoft, after all….

What’s your take? Is Microsoft taking the right course with Compatibility Mode in IE 8?

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1. cjmicro
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#292623

mj1256;113598before you all continue to beat up JA or anyone else over IE8 browser compatibility, edited for bandwidths sake 🙂
What’s your take? Is Microsoft taking the right course with Compatibility Mode in IE 8?

<Rant> There are several thoughts from me on this issue, lets start by saying I’m not a MS fan I prefer to use FF because of its ability to cope more readily with minor quirks and still display a decent attempt at what the designer intended plus useful extensions such as firebug etc.

MS has always wanted to be monopolistic and do it their way, often to save dev time, flood the mkt with non std products that after buying up all the better competition, left then in a strong position, but they couldn’t and never can buy up FF and the dev team.

MS left the W3C table years ago when it couldn’t buy, bully or get it’s own way in making standards etc so given they had the chance to play and become a standard web browser following the rules like all else 😀 they caused all the problems which now they are trying to address, personally I don’t care as I only use ff and my small target audience uses ff or have to dl it for proper compatibility (I can control that audience as most stuff is intranet based )

For the professional big developer I feel very sorry, they (MS) will never get it right and it (IE) will always be incompatible, the sooner web devs world wide boycott attempting IE compatibility the huge number of users using IE would drop in a mth and FF would become the leader, it doesn’t take long to force trends to change, the site providing a disclaimer saying something like

“Due to the fact tha MS cannot provide a web std browser our site is optimised for FF which IS a W3C compliant browser”etc etc and provide a link to dl FF

Those with big balls will do it, those who pander to IE3 NS 3 will not and that’s what MS is counting on I guess, no one is game to make a FF only compliant site, forget opera its IE based or has IE mode on by default

<Rant/> I have my flamefroof underwear on so “Bring it on”

Cheers ShannonN

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#292631

Hello,

Being a developer for the past 4 years, I have had the chance to experience IE in its full glory.

The sad thing in India, and Spain where most of my clients reside, is that almost everybody uses IE. Some of my clients even used IE 5.5!!

The hacks and the codes were always there to make the things right!

But the fact is whatever the version, MS comes out with, I dont think they will ever manage to make the site completely compliant. Firefox is ofcourse the best Developer tool out there, but Chrome nowadays beats it big time as compared to memory usage. And so, now is my preferred browser for browsing only.

The only thing we can do is try to make people aware that there are many browsers than that IE.

Mihir.

[wooohanetworks Friend wooohanetworksJoin date: September 2008Posts: 1239Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 148 Thanked: 138 times in 41 posts]

#292638

In IE8 one of my sites is shown correctly except one typical region I still have to fix which is a footer issue. So, all the other parts are super, but when I turn on compatibility mode, the JA Slidewhow 2, taken from the Cooper theme into another JA Template, is displaying the full width picture starting from 50% to the right on only, still all what is one the left blank region is a clickable link, the hover pointer goes to hand. Plus that some styles for a cart in a static region of the site is unaligned and messed up with the compat mode on, where in regular IE8 both those issues doe not come up.

So, what shall I do? Built my sites for users with compat mode on now where is regular mode everything is fine? :D:D:D:D

To the developers standpoints, I mean the developers of extensions and templates, not webdevelopers who work with their material:

Anyway, I wonder about all the developers crying about why their sites only work in FF etc. so well and place “support FF, down with IE” slogans and logos on their sites, seems they do not have an IE installed to simply build all their templates and extensions based on the requirements of IE and not using FF when making those. As mostly what you create for IE works same perfect in FF, except some very few cases.

That is simply funny, to do it ithis way, not working with IE where most or all fixes you apply to a template, in the most cases, more cases than vise versa, you could have saved all the people around with simply not using FF and telling people IE is bad, and that you have more work when building it, people shall comply and get angry with you on the big MS and later people flood your forums with those issues, “need IE fixes, all messed up”, where you could simply save all that with creating the sites with IE on and not FF. I can only laugh about that since ever….

Compare that, from a developer standpoint:

1 hour creation work with FF, saving time to make some extra CSS styles for IE for example. People will ask for years to need certain bug fixes for IE and this and that, you spend so much time and later giving them all the fixes, where you could have done it with IE, had some more work in the creation but later not so many people to complain with reason, who make you responsible with reason, as you built it on FF and not the more pity IE. —>

3 hours creation work with IE, having some little extra work but saving you all the people who complain later,

When you cannot understand that you cannot take the easy road where the hard way is the one that is even saving you more work later, than I can really only say, funny thing. When your stuff is free, okay, you can say, that work is theirs but you still hang there with people asking for bug fixes also when all your stuff is free.

Much fun! See ya…:D

Who wants to install standalone IE instances from IE3 up to IE6, check this out:

http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE

And all I can say about supporting IE6 when you built a trendy, modern site with mass orientation, meaning it shall look good and not be super simple so that any wrecky computer can load it, it is not possible to support IE6, not only because you may have to fix any css line manually but because it is not how anything in the world goes. The fewer ones that do not follow to update get seperated while the ones that follow the leaders will enjoy….and why trying to change that rule. I simply mean, yes there are people who say “in an online store I only want to buy something, do not care if I like the design” same as “I do not go to nice shopping malls I buy at simple (unfriendly looking) stores only”. But the ones who make the big money are those malls where music is playing, nice overwhelming ads all around, the total trip for clients and not the small stores that also could get some rehab of their stuff but simply do not want it, also when it would not break their budget. There the argument comes, that in the malls it is all so loud, music playing and so many fancy stuff all around, are they tripping or what? Again, funny thing….the mall still wins.

AND MOST IMPORTANT, it is here not about the financial capabilities of a client or user, it is not something that seperates high income people from low income people, it is not about that the entry of a site costs something when it does not support IE6 anymore, to update a browser, to download the newest IE version, let it here be still IE7 COSTS NOTHING, IS FREE AND CAN BE USED ALSO ON TYPE OF “OLDER COMPUTERS” INDEED, SO WHAT TO REACH IS THE PART OF THE MIND OF USERS THAT KEEPS THEM AWAY FROM BEING UP TO DATE WITH THEIR BROWSERS AND NOT FOLLOWING THEIR YET UNWISHFUL HABITS IN SUCH CASES, if they have low money or a lot. That is why I wonder why some parts of the industry even care about this issue at all and do not just do what they should do, base their sites on compatibility to the modern browsers and allow people to enjoy the experiences on their site with nice designs and multimedia applications and not keeping away pleasure for those who are up to date. To have a modern IE version has also nothing to do with being “trendy” in case it is “uncool” to be trendy etc., as all those factors often come into play, people say “do I really need a cool modern browser version, my car is also old…”.

Thanks!

BTW, who once looks at all the sales of new computers a month will wonder why some party in the business tells us “a lot of users” still have not the right computers to display all that fancy stuff correctly where sales are higher as ever and prices lowest. It is typical nonsense of some guys who even use the newest ones but still open their mouth on behalf of something that does not really exist anymore. In some countries, people get computers from their state, when they are unemployed and are eligible for such supporting programs. How it goes in parts outside the USA, Japan or Western Europe etc. or the metropolitan areas anywhere, I do not know. It is also always about who you want to reach, if your site is ecommerce related or not, as those who pay mostly have money and a new browser and a good computer and it is here about what makes sense and to tailor your sites onto your clients not the ones who will even never visit the site. Think you understand. And when you are scared that you could loose clients with a super multimedia store, than sell stuff also on eBay and not just in your super fancy store, needing a modern browser, Flash, Java, whatsoever to display correctly. eBay and those sites keep it also with support for IE6 I guess and wonder why, a lot of people that have only that old stuff, if rich or poor, they only buy on eBay anyway. Think creative, it is mostly about Psychology and to know about it! eBay and those stores are not really that what I would consider to nominate even for a contest about site design and usability. The site is awkward, lousy colors, that also display with lowest resolutions, outdated icons, and what I refer to as nice to use is something very different, not a mass of links on any page in the member area and so on, here user friendly is really only applicable to exact this topic, it will also work out without errors in old browsers and and so slow computer the frequent eBay user does not even have no more, so it user friendly based on very outdated principles and I would be very excited to see an 90% Ajax or comparable-Powered ebay one day, but this right now, feeling like being still shortly after 1996 where it was opened. One has to decide, whether to make a site for everyone out there or for those you have as definite paying clients or users. And as long those sites still keep it with that, all the people who do not upgrade or simply buy a new computer and also can afford but simply do not want for what reason there may be, will be less encouraged to do so, as their super eBay and others support their unwishful thinking. It is like still allowing old cars that pollute a lot and have no airbags on the street. When those will be banned, most people who get a newer one, must not be a brand new one, but one that complies to the new environmental laws, will suddenly really enjoy that cool design of the interior and the smooth ride even more than having airbags or an environmentally friendly car….The relations are clear, also when IE7 is more safe, people will enjoy the benefits of all the fancy things on the internet, same with when getting a new computer for 200 Bucks and suddenly watching movies on the internet is soooo awsome, they reqret to not have spend the few bucks earlier already. (Think about it, most of the unemployed guys anywhere, they have no car, no income, get state money but have better computer equipment than I have, lol! At least here it is that way, in Germany, in a yet stll very stable economy.)

This to the issue with older IE versions and to tell people to upgrade those, but to tell people not to use IE7 but Firefox etc. is kind of crazy when you really think about it and it does not benefit the situation at all, is more an approach into the wrong direction, with all the Pro-FreeOpenSource-Bad-Microsoft-Things that come into place and play a big role in this case and discussion. It simply makes no real sense.

That’s all folks!

[wooohanetworks Friend wooohanetworksJoin date: September 2008Posts: 1239Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 148 Thanked: 138 times in 41 posts]

#292675

The Microsoft Update Pages show one little error in IE8 themselves…a css issue, a typical one, the button is moving below the search field:

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#292680

Several large websites in Norway have launched an advocacy campaign urging Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 users to upgrade their outdated web browsers.

Leading the charge is Finn.no, an eBay-like site that is apparently the largest site for buying and selling goods in all of Norway (Finn is Norwegian for “Find”). Earlier this week, Finn.no posted a warning on its web page for visitors running IE 6. The banner, seen at right, urges them to ditch IE 6 and upgrade to Internet Explorer 7.

Dozens of other sites, including the influential tech news website Digi.no, have joined the campaign, but have widened the playing field by suggesting either upgrading to IE 7 or switching to an alternative like Firefox, Safari or, of course, Norway’s own Opera browser.

The drive is spreading to other countries.

Sites in Sweden, Indonesia and Australia have joined in. Norwegian blogger Peter Haza is cataloging the participants, and an international wiki called “IE6 – DO NOT WANT” has been set up to track the spreading browsercide. There’s a Facebook group, too.

READ FULL ARTICLE

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#292681

wooohanetworks, what a tome, by any chance, were you the secret ghost writer for Leo Tolstoy’s “War and Peace” 😉

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#292866

so, anyone want to fight the IE6 battle?

[scotty Friend scottyJoin date: March 2008Posts: 2339Downloads:0Uploads:13 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 827 times in 595 posts]

#292876

mj1256;113913so, anyone want to fight the IE6 battle?

It’s a waste of time IMO.

Anyone who is still using IE6 (IE7 was released in 2006) is not PC savvy in the first place. People (especially novices) are vary weary of sites that ask you to download and install programs regardless of what program it is.

RE: The compatibility button. I find it incredible that Micro$oft expect every website out there ( and there are quiet a few) to make adjustments to suit their browser. Shouldn’t it be the other way round?

[ShannonN Friend ShannonNJoin date: July 2006Posts: 1947Downloads:0Uploads:9 Thanks: 16 Thanked: 172 times in 49 posts]

#292908

scotty;113925It’s a waste of time IMO.

Anyone who is still using IE6 (IE7 was released in 2006) is not PC savvy in the first place. People (especially novices) are vary weary of sites that ask you to download and install programs regardless of what program it is.

RE: The compatibility button. I find it incredible that Micro$oft expect every website out there ( and there are quiet a few) to make adjustments to suit their browser. Shouldn’t it be the other way round?

With IE 8 when stable release and in combo with Win 7, MS may attempt to make a more compliant browser, testing Win 7 here with IE 8 and it’s shocking but then I prefer FF and haven’t u/g IE when asked to, waiting for a far better version to become available.

All MS need to do to drag users into a modern browser ( but all are non compliant) was in the first instance turn on automatically check for ug to IE in the options to auto dl updates and install and remove user interaction to turn the ug off.

I see MS as now finally having to do something about the browser, as web savvy ppl are just using FF which by natural attrition will start showing more and more in the logs and take over from IE .

What I can’t understand is web designers defense of coding for IE compatibilty BASED on logs? That is . . . IF ppl using IE 6 go to a site for teh first time and its all screwed up they wont be back to see changes to make it work, and its a revolving door isn’t it every time you fix it something else breaks, I can see online stores have to get it right but 60% of web sites are NOT stores just product info or social networking that dont care

ShannonN

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#292913

How do you find Windows7? My brother has it and he thinks it’s great! (compared to vista)

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#292915

I’m still on xp pro and a variety of linux boxes, you can only upgrade vista to win7, so i could not try it

[ShannonN Friend ShannonNJoin date: July 2006Posts: 1947Downloads:0Uploads:9 Thanks: 16 Thanked: 172 times in 49 posts]

#293012

scotty;113968How do you find Windows7? My brother has it and he thinks it’s great! (compared to vista)

Hi Scotty
I have Beta 7000, I think the latest leaked version is 7033, I like it it is faster on bootup given the same installed stuff to troll through on load as my Vista Ultimate by 5 seconds at least, on first boot it ran a wizard to get my screen text (LCD 22 in) and colour saturation etc working to my satisfaction which Vista never did.

My version has some compatibility probs that are fixed in later Beta versions but I don’t get the updates as its not worth the time, I’ll def buy it or ug when it is finally out for general public use.

Runs most stuff most recent heavy games like Crysis, COD4 and 5 etc benchmarks the same cpu wise but is slightly better at graphics even thought the W7 drivers are beta releases which shows promise. file management is a bit better and there are a few nice touches in general areas with icons and reporting

overall for a first level Beta its surprisingly stable and even allows My fusion HDTV card to play properly first time out using powercinema the orig Fusion drivers are crap even in Vista but flake in 7

Cheers ShannonN

[ShannonN Friend ShannonNJoin date: July 2006Posts: 1947Downloads:0Uploads:9 Thanks: 16 Thanked: 172 times in 49 posts]

#293013

mj1256;113970I’m still on xp pro and a variety of linux boxes, you can only upgrade vista to win7, so i could not try it

The Beta allows you to do a clean install format an old drive and away you go I run it on an old P4 laptop 1 gb ram and built in 128 mb graphics fine, p4 desktop 5 yr old dual core 3gh geoforce MX video card 64 mb video ram runs well

The athlon quad core and dual core intel systems scream

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#293079

do you have a link for where I can get the clean install

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