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[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#144350

Allowing visitors to comment is very powerful way to involve visitors to a website. However, based from the lack of proper decorum — in current civil discourse — without moderation a comment system is likely to do more harm than good.

“They who shout the loudest get attention” is a sad commentary of current civil discourse. To minimize this, the JA Comment Plugin must include scripts to allow the option for webmaster(s) or moderator(s) of a site to:

1. approve or disapprove a submitted comment. Otherwise, a submitted comment will remain unpublished. This is standard in many reputable online commercial newspapers.
2. validate email address provided (this may also minimize spammers, if a response verification is included)
3. present the comment(s) automatically as separate inner pages or separate file page entirely. The latter is preferred to avoid bloat that can slow a page.

The first option would be most critical. Otherwise, I have to disable the plugin and use a moderated Forum.

Clarifications:

1. Does the choice “Registered” in the plugin refer to the ability to submit a comment or read a comment? I would prefer that the two options be independent, at the discretion of the webmaster.
2. Is there a brief summary of the various features of the comments systems provided?

Cornelio

[scotty Friend scottyJoin date: March 2008Posts: 2339Downloads:0Uploads:13 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 827 times in 595 posts]

#317782

I’m sure the others are the same but with Intensdebate anyway you set all your settings at the Intensedebate website when you set up your account.

http://intensedebate.com

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#317788

<em>@scotty 145214 wrote:</em><blockquote>I’m sure the others are the same but with Intensdebate anyway you set all your settings at the Intensedebate website when you set up your account.

http://intensedebate.com</blockquote>

Scotty,

I have not fully explored the Comment feature yet. I am still just reading the Forum sticky and what I can glimpse from the BackEnd. Just to clarify what you stated, to make sure I got it correctly:

Does this mean that any site that I create with either the

http://intensedebate.com/

or the other choices provided, would always require the intervention of these third parties?

I hope it is not. However, I have a feeling something like that might be involved — if I have to register with the third party. I like the features alright, based from my cursory survey of the site you provided. However, as good as these features might be, there are issues that needed to considered. These include Privacy issues, not only to my site, but also the users of the site who post comments. The creator of the comment system may then have access to a vast set of information, that if they have the resources, like Google, Amazon, etc do, may exploit such information.

My preference would be a system where the extension provide “in house” processing of any interaction between the website (via moderators and webmasters) and the processing of comments (approval, deletion, etc.) from visitors. For example, the use of Forums, like that used by Joomlart, or the SMF forum software — while not as integrated as the comment softwares selected here — will not require further intercession of the creators of the Forum software.

AppleInsider. an Apple rumor site, as well as Wikipedia and others, have found a way to couple an independent comment (e.g., forum thread) with specific articles.

Cornelio

[scotty Friend scottyJoin date: March 2008Posts: 2339Downloads:0Uploads:13 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 827 times in 595 posts]

#317793

Yes Cornelio it connects to the IntenseDebate website.

Everything you need to know is here… http://www.intensedebate.com/faq

If you want a comment system that is in-house then look here.. http://extensions.joomla.org/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=listcats&cat_id=1764&Itemid=2

1 user says Thank You to scotty for this useful post

1. cgc0202

[crazyleggs Friend crazyleggsJoin date: May 2008Posts: 138Downloads:3Uploads:4 Thanks: 16 Thanked: 17 times in 1 posts]

#317797

I too was concern about having my comments hosted out, what if intense debate goes out of business? what if they are hacked? etc…, after reading over the FAQ’s, I feel alot more comfortable with having this feature hosted. I will never have to worry about dealing with the underlying technology, and it looks far more professional than any of the extensions currently available.

[scotty Friend scottyJoin date: March 2008Posts: 2339Downloads:0Uploads:13 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 827 times in 595 posts]

#317800

Intensedebate is owned by WordPress. It’s 25 year old owner recently turned down an offer of $200,000,000 so I think it’s unlikely they are going out of business any time soon. :p

[sigjomla123 Friend sigjomla123Join date: December 2008Posts: 5Downloads:0Uploads:0 Thanks: 5]

#317801

Do you know how I can delete the comments on the site when I downloaded Telina iii? I would appreciate your help.

[scotty Friend scottyJoin date: March 2008Posts: 2339Downloads:0Uploads:13 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 827 times in 595 posts]

#317802

I would say go to the Intensedebate and open a new account. then open the comments plugin and enter your new account details in the relevant box. I ain’t done it so not entirely sure.

1 user says Thank You to scotty for this useful post

1. sigjomla123

[crazyleggs Friend crazyleggsJoin date: May 2008Posts: 138Downloads:3Uploads:4 Thanks: 16 Thanked: 17 times in 1 posts]

#317812

You are correct scotty, the existing comments in the downloadable template are based on the Joomlart key. Once you put in your own key, all of the existing comments are removed.

1 user says Thank You to crazyleggs for this useful post

1. scotty

[SHoggard Friend SHoggardJoin date: October 2006Posts: 290Downloads:5Uploads:21 Thanks: 26 Thanked: 7 times in 1 posts]

#317824

Hi I share Cornelio’s consern about ‘outsourcing’ comments to a third-party (whether or not the 25-year old was offered $200mil) it’s an issue of control over my content & not directing traffic (to a 25-year old millionaire) – so I won’t be using this.

I thought it was a comment module for the site…. we’ll have out own forum, thanks.

I wonder why JA thought it worthwhile to build this, or is it some affiliate deal?

[scotty Friend scottyJoin date: March 2008Posts: 2339Downloads:0Uploads:13 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 827 times in 595 posts]

#317826

an affiliate deal for what? it’s a free service!

If you don’t want to use a 3rd party mod then don’t. There are Joomla extensions that will provide comments in house. I posted a link to them above.

The 3 comments modules that JA selected are the 3 most used comment modules on the internet. Intensedebate has a massive user base and one login can be used on numerous sites (if you allow it). There are loads of plugins and extensions for it. Popular sites won’t be using up all their disc space…. the are loads of advantages to using these external comment plugins as crazylegs pointed out above.

[SHoggard Friend SHoggardJoin date: October 2006Posts: 290Downloads:5Uploads:21 Thanks: 26 Thanked: 7 times in 1 posts]

#317827

Thanks… I’ll KIV it for a while & focus on Teline

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#317862

These are not exactly third party examples, but there are concerns you deal with sites that has control over your content.

As to how big companies are, one of the best examples was the pioneer Geocities. It was created around mid 1990’s, bought by Yahoo in late 1990’s (not sure if it was 1997) for US$4.5 billion. I created my first personal website there in 1996 — simple html but it gained a following. It was the creations of many millions of individuals that led a very small upstart company to be bought eventually at US$4.5 billion after just a few years.

I had a run in with Geocities early with what is considered “decent” images. Since one of my interests is art, this can be an issue. Technically, for example, masterpieces like David, or the Creation of Adam, or any nude art would be considered indecent images. I asked clarifications on this. They were kind of hedging. I was assured, they will consider it on a case to case basis. After spending almost a year developing my site. One day, I found out that they deleted my site. No warning, no email to explain why, no time given a chance to remove whatever they thought was objectionable. I was naive then. I did not save all my contents — it was a prototype of a personal blog. I tried to recreate my personal site there, but it was never the same. I soured on Geocities.

This experience with Geocities has taught me to be more wary about “free sites”. I started having my own paid sites in 1999.

Geocities, under Yahoo, did all sorts of crazy things that might have antagonized other users. Yahoo Geocities also has been upstaged by other more innovative social networking sites. I think it was last year or this year when Yahoo closed its doors on Geocities. It is no longer profitable and more likely a money-losing venture for Yahoo.

My latest experience on this was Flickr, a site now owned by Yahoo. I am allready bitten by my experience with Geocities. so when I joined Flickr (then owned by a very innovative small Canadian company), I have no illusion to make it my personal photo website, and I only used their “free” membership. I joined it mainly to “connect” with people to collaborate on certain projects that required a lot of images. It was great. A few months after I joined Flickr in 2005, Yahoo bought Flickr (US$35M).

Under Yahoo, in 2007, perhaps under pressure from crazy conservative groups here in the US and to conform with “policies” of other governments like China, Singapore and other “conservative” or police states, Flickr instituted one of the most draconian censorship policies. Any protest images or “controversial” images were “screened out” (not deleted) — including again what was considered indecent images. Anything showing “skin” would be considered indecent.

It gained attention only because one of those countries used in this trial policy implementation was Germany. I joined the protest against this Censorship because of how arbitrary it was belng implemented. You can even get banned for protesting.

One of the biggest protest groups within Flickr was eventually hijacked, I think by a plant from Flickr itself or a sympathizers to Flickr. The original leaders were banned very systematically. Then suddenly a new name appeared, as one of the administrators of the group. He seemed to be “conciliatory” at the beginning, but I was suspicious, and so did others. Eventually, he started closing threads, “editing” posts, etc. When his efforts were not succeeding, he found ways to ban people themselves, including the administrators and moderators.

I happened to be one of the Moderators who became one of his most ardent critics. Also, I countered some of the closing of threads. However, he was not able to ban me initinally because I did not attack him personally but more argued against his policies and those of his cohorts. It was a later “mass execution” of the residual critics when he included me in the list of banned Moderators. By then though, most of the pioneers of the campaign against Flickr censorship policies were gone and moved on to other sites.

I still consider Flickr a good resource sites for images, but I seldom update my site there now.

If you follow other social networking sites, including the current darling Facebook, you will find that they would change policies midstream that countermanded the original contract you had with them. Again, the recurring issues are privacy and “content ownership”.

Many of my relative for example have personal webpages in Facebook, and we even have a “clan” site in there, I was told. They have been inviting me to join them there. But, I cannot summon the enthusiasm to invest my time to create a site there. Maybe at some point, I may create sites there, for some of the websites I am creating — to take advantage fo the vast audience of Facebook — but not for a personal site.

Cornelio

[SHoggard Friend SHoggardJoin date: October 2006Posts: 290Downloads:5Uploads:21 Thanks: 26 Thanked: 7 times in 1 posts]

#317864

Hi Scotty,
Sorry if this thread is continuing past its sell-by date…. But once again I find myself agreeing with Cornelio (I must be careful of this – twice in one day!).
For me his examples are just a minor part of the concern; The issue is IP Ownership and Traffic.

On the IP front, just look at the furore over Facebook’s attempt to claim copyright over content posted (mainly pics)

On the Traffic front: what’s the benefit to me to host comments on some 20-something millionaire’s site, it’s driving traffic to someone else’s site, giving them membership and racking up their value – not mine.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#317865

<em>@scotty 145230 wrote:</em><blockquote>Yes Cornelio it connects to the IntenseDebate website.

Everything you need to know is here… http://www.intensedebate.com/faq

If you want a comment system that is in-house then look here.. http://extensions.joomla.org/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=listcats&cat_id=1764&Itemid=2</blockquote>

Thanks Scotty,

I used a Joomla comment extension before. One of the best at the time. As you stated in another response, one of the problems of “open source” initiatives is that it is usually managed by one or few individuals. Quite often, they cannot keep up with the frequent updates of Joomla. In the case of the comment extension I used, the iinitiator got personal stuff priorities to attend to; he abandoned the project.

For now, I will explore for now the use of a linked Forum, as outlined above, as a potential substitute.

What I hope Joomlart would do though would be adopt one of these “in-house” comment extensions, and provide support for it, including needed updatee, as part templates like the Teline series.

Cornelio

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