Joomla Templates Club 406,261 posts

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#258251

<em>@Menalto 64469 wrote:</em><blockquote>Personally i would have rewritten about 40% of the template to make it work out as it should, it is too buggy at the moment to be as flexible as it should be….</blockquote>

This is a very intriguing idea Menalto, if you know what I mean. — Cornelio

[questbg Friend questbgJoin date: May 2008Posts: 1912Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 146 Thanked: 339 times in 197 posts]

#258255

I think one of the most annoying things about this is the complete lack of response from JA with regards all these bugs and problems.

There seems to be more frantic please for help in the Teline II forum than any other, and yet we get very little ‘official’ feedback from JA themselves.

Even a ‘we’re working on it’ or ‘a new release with bug fixes is due in a few weeks’. At least then, I would be happy in the knowledge they are listening and doing something. This silence is unforgivable.

I’ve been in business for myself for many years … and, one thing I’ve found to be very true is … the very worst way of dealing with customer complaints is to never respond. This compounds the problem 100 times and makes for some VERY angry clients.

Personally, as I only joined for Teline II, and paid for a year, I feel somewhat cheated … seems JA are happy to take the dollars, but then ignore their paying clients … be that for 3 months, 6 months or a year. Had I known, I’d have paid for three months … then maybe I wouldn’t feel so bad!

[gaygiorgia Friend gaygiorgiaJoin date: June 2008Posts: 218Downloads:0Uploads:7 Thanks: 15 Thanked: 15 times in 1 posts]

#258273

<em>@questbg 64672 wrote:</em><blockquote>There seems to be more frantic please for help in the Teline II forum than any other, and yet we get very little ‘official’ feedback from JA themselves.</blockquote>
500% agree.
<blockquote>
Even a ‘we’re working on it’ or ‘a new release with bug fixes is due in a few weeks’. At least then, I would be happy in the knowledge they are listening and doing something. This silence is unforgivable.</blockquote>
5000% agree.

<blockquote>I’ve been in business for myself for many years … and, one thing I’ve found to be very true is … the very worst way of dealing with customer complaints is to never respond. This compounds the problem 100 times and makes for some VERY angry clients.</blockquote>
10000000% agree.
i’ll be soon doctor in marketing and management. i can assure to you that if they do not change their policy, their will have in future a GREAT loss of profit. trust me.

[tempusserbia Friend tempusserbiaJoin date: January 2008Posts: 270Downloads:0Uploads:5 Thanks: 29 Thanked: 32 times in 8 posts]

#258304

<em>@questbg 64672 wrote:</em><blockquote>I think one of the most annoying things about this is the complete lack of response from JA with regards all these bugs and problems.

There seems to be more frantic please for help in the Teline II forum than any other, and yet we get very little ‘official’ feedback from JA themselves.

Even a ‘we’re working on it’ or ‘a new release with bug fixes is due in a few weeks’. At least then, I would be happy in the knowledge they are listening and doing something. This silence is unforgivable.

I’ve been in business for myself for many years … and, one thing I’ve found to be very true is … the very worst way of dealing with customer complaints is to never respond. This compounds the problem 100 times and makes for some VERY angry clients.

Personally, as I only joined for Teline II, and paid for a year, I feel somewhat cheated … seems JA are happy to take the dollars, but then ignore their paying clients … be that for 3 months, 6 months or a year. Had I known, I’d have paid for three months … then maybe I wouldn’t feel so bad!</blockquote>

Unfortunately, this is not only issue with Teline, but with other templates, and extensions too.:((

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#258328

I just helped someone clear up one mess, the universal problem of not installing the Demo sample data. The only solution I know here that is fastest is to start all over again. And, that is what the person did.

But, then the same person committed another very common and fatal mistake when changing the names of Sections and Categories. If you do not do it in sequence

1. Change Section names in Sections manager first
=> record the CID)

2. After changes of Section names in the Sections manager, make sure that the changes are reflected automatically in the JA News module, after reload.

3. Then change the Section names in the Magazine menu
=> make sure that the CID is the same, and highlight the correct modified Section name, in the list of Sections in the Magazine menu. Another check is the URL shown

etc.

I committed the same errors myself, because I did not find any decent guide on this for Joomla 1.0.x-JA Teline II. And, it took time for me to learn by trial and error what was causing the problem

Anyway, I was trying to see what the difference is in Joomla 1.5x, and to my great surprise, in the Magazine menu of Joomla 1.5x-JA Teline II does not list the actual Section ID or Category ID, as it does in Joomla 1.0x-JA Teline II

The only way for Joomla 1.5x-JA Teline II users not to interchange the Sections (or the Categories within a section) is to check the URL box in the Magazine menu

Let’s face it, even the sharpest person will know all this intuitively. And, without good guides, the only way to learn is by trial and error — not the most efficient way of doing so.

What we forget is that JA Teline II is a different animal altogether compared with other templates. So, it is more complex than the usual templates.

As a result, so many questions are asked over and over again in the Forum because of this lack of guide. It might have been answered before but it is not easy to find anything in a forum with thousands of postings — in the case of JA Teline II more than 800 threads and more than 4,600 responses, the most responses of any templates, and it is still very new. Only the original JA Teline has slightly more threads (but this is about to be surpassed very soon.

While I want to help new users, at some point you get jaded answering the same thing, over and over again. It actually takes a lot of time to do this. And, this problem could be mitigated if there are good guides and tutorials — including cautions on what are critical things to do and not do.

Cornelio

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#258348

I understand that we have to vent our frustrations. My only concern with this growing number of threads of mutual commiseration is that they really would not solve anything.

If we do not take more concrete actions, many of us will become more jaded, and later on indifferent. And then just fade away.

We know what needed to be done:

Better templates
Updated (corrections, etc.) scripts for example, for Teline II
Well-written tutorials
etc.

=> so what concrete measures must we take collectively as customers to ensure that Joomlart will do the above?

=> there are other posts already in another section, decrying the delay of the first July template
I do not know how Joomlart could make time to meet our own demands here, if they cannot even meet the basic quota of two new templates per month on time

Something must have to give. The issue about whether to have one or two templates per month has been contentious. But in the current state, it is unlikely that they can make time for our own if they stick to two templates per month.

We are not the only party in this though. The other side who prefer that Joomlart honors its ad to provide two templates per month has a point.

So, how do we get over these impasse on the two opposing perspectives.

Someone or a group must represent us — representing different sides — in negotiation with Joomlart .

Really just complaining will lead us nowhere. We become part of the problem because a different atmosphere sets in among a bunch of people who see nothing but despair.

We have to be realistic, unless we form our own template company, there is slim picking among the choices for bargain basement templates. Have you seen the RocketTheme answer to JA Teline II for example?

Unless our mail goal is just to destroy Joomlart — because they did not keep their word — then just complaining without looking for realistic (compromise) solutions that will be acceptable to all parties, will not help us in the end.

We all lose. And we will even be more frustrated.

So let us all grow up. We all know our complaints already. Do we have to repeat them over and over and over again?

The only other choice for us really is to just leave, if we gave up on Joomlart. Honestly, $70 or $500 is not really a lot of money. I have given up what would be really a fortune, to stand for a principle, so the amounts paid to Joomlart is peanuts. Thus, as far as I was concerned, while I paid Joomlart $70, I left Joomlart actually since early February 2008 when I got fed up. I would not have come back if it were not for JA Teline II.

In contrast, one customer has made it his(her?) crusade to destroy Joomlart, and announce it all in his site. He can do that of course, but first his site must become “famous” to make any difference. And, even if he does. In the scheme of things, life is too short to waste on a vendetta.

I am one with you if we try to focus our attention instead in finding realistic solutions — that will consider all parties. If we have all given up on Joomlart, then we act accordingly. Let us make a pact, no more of this mutual commiseration threads.

Cornelio

[subfighter Friend subfighterJoin date: February 2007Posts: 86Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 7 Thanked: 1 times in 1 posts]

#258351

well i dont think the 2 templates a month matters if they do not work correctly and have bugs… as it jsut creates a more **** problems…

i think more people would be happy all around if they just fixed all the bugs that are known in the current releases..

i mean all the time and effort to develop this site with subscription and forum intergration. etc… they are clearly capable of fixing the issues… the million dollar question is why they dont…

the moderators here as we find out are not the developers.. so what do we do..

[ruigato Friend ruigatoJoin date: January 2006Posts: 74Downloads:0Uploads:6 Thanks: 48 Thanked: 1 times in 1 posts]

#258356

<em>@cgc0202 64779 wrote:</em><blockquote>I Have you seen the RocketTheme answer to JA Teline II for example?

Cornelio</blockquote>

No.. What is that template?

Regarding RT:
First i want to say that its not my habit to talk about competition neither compare other solutions in this kind of foruns but i want to give my 2 cents.
I am member of RT club since November 09, 2005 and i must say they are keeping better and better. Support team is great, ducumentation covers almost every aspect of each template including some customisation hacks.

I Like Joomlart, dont get me wrong, but in this things i think that its not a problem to look to the competition especialy the “top competition”. Its not imitate some people business but grab the good things and make it even better so Joomlart can be ahead in the future.
JoomlaJunkie (wich i am not a member) seem to relase very good templates recently also.

I already said i dont mind pay more or have just one template per month i that would make things better.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#258359

<em>@subfighter 64782 wrote:</em><blockquote>
.. so what do we do..</blockquote>

Subfighter,

Let us start with you. What do you suggest we do that is realistic and concrete, and will satisfy all parties?

In my case, I have already announced that while I may maintain my ties with Joomlart — after all they make some good templates that I like, layout wise — I am going on with my announced plan to help create the Collaborative Support Group.

One thing the Collaborative Support Group could do, if there are enough members would be to hire someone (paid of course) to make all the corrections needed, or even improve the script that will then become available to all members of the Collaborative Support Group.

The power of numbers

Here’s one example where we can lead to a concrete solution. Menalto claimed this:

<em>@Menalto 64469 wrote:</em><blockquote>Personally i would have rewritten about 40% of the template to make it work out as it should, it is too buggy at the moment to be as flexible as it should be….</blockquote>

and since we know in this forum that to an extent Menalto knows his templates, based on the fixes he has done here. Why don’t we as a group hire Menalto?

Let us say, Menalto agrees to do it, for $1,000. Guaranteed to work.

That is a lot of money if you will shoulder the expenses, alone.

But look at what the power of numbers can do:

Menalto’s fee => #Members => Cost per member

$1,000 => 10 => $100
$1,000 => 100 => $10
$1,000 => 1,000 => $1
$1,000 => 10,000 => $0.1
$1,000 => 20,000 => $0.05

Would you consider paying an extra $10 to get a working, stable, fast loading JA Teline II?

I would in an instant. But, do not stop there. Look if we are 20,000 strong in a Collaborative Support Group, it will cost each of us, just 5 cents, to get the job done.

In fact, since Menalto claims that he can do one template a day.:) — then if we are big enough, we can negotiate with him, and say; you will be a millionaire in 3 years, if we pay you that much, and you get one every day.

How about we pay you a decent full salary instead, and work for us? If Menalto is a sensible person, then he would realize that he could not get such $1,000 paying job day-in day-out, and he might consider the security of a decent full salary instead. After all, we know that Moderators, even a Super Moderator like Menalto, do not get paid much here.

We do not have to stop there — why don’t we as a group then use the power of our number to prepare collaboratively the Manuals, tutorials, tips, FAQs, and other tools we need. So that we become part of the solution to the problems we encounter.

In this scheme I propose, we, as part of a Collaborative Support Group, can work together with Joomlart or other template companies. And, with our number, if there are more of us, we can negotiate to get the best templates from them, and forget the rest. These are just some concrete, doable pro-active stuff that we can do.

If we all understand the above — about the Power of Numbers — we will stop complaining and instead find ways, so we will organize as a Collaborative Support Group that I have been proposing for quite some time now.

Do not expect it to be free though.

It involves a lot of money, because people have to be hired, accountants, lawyers, and Uncle Sam has to be paid, social security benefits, health insurance, legal fees, liability insurance, the credit card companies get a hefty fee if membership fees have to be collected, etc., etc. (see note below).

Since many of us have our own jobs, or more important things to do, many of us cannot do the above mundane things that comes with every group.

The question becomes, would you be willing to help organize or become part of such a Collaborative Support Group, and help in anyway you can to make it work?

And, would you be willing to help defray the cost in the successful operation of such a Collaborative Support Group?

If you are willing to pay Joomlart $70 per year, with the service and products they offer now, how much would you be willing to pay a Collaborative Support Group that can actually do the things you are asking for?

These are the things that we should be thinking about — concrete solutions that will solve our problems.

Repeating our woes too much will not lead us anywhere near to what we want to happen.

Cornelio

The cost of running a project

From my own experience involved mostly in research institutions, if the direct cost is $300K (for three years), the average size of a single research grant, the institution tags in about 65% indirect costs. Some institutions like those affiliated as teaching hospitals of Harvard Medical School actually charge 70-85%, and one hospital (the world famous Children’s Hospital) charges as much as 110% of indirect costs. About 75% of the direct cost itself is used to pay for the people involved in research. Only the remaining 25% is left for expenses for the actual research itself. And if you consider the total costs (indirect and direct costs) — the amount is about 15% of the total. This is for non-profit project. All that is paid by institutions like the National Institutes of Health.

1 user says Thank You to cgc0202 for this useful post

1. tempusserbia

[gaygiorgia Friend gaygiorgiaJoin date: June 2008Posts: 218Downloads:0Uploads:7 Thanks: 15 Thanked: 15 times in 1 posts]

#258363

<em>@cgc0202 64793 wrote:</em><blockquote>Why don’t we as a group hire Menalto?

Let us say, Menalto agrees to do it, for $1,000. Guaranteed to work.

That is a lot of money if you will shoulder the expenses, alone.

But look at what the power of numbers can do:

Menalto’s fee => #Members => Cost per member

$1,000 => 10 => $100
$1,000 => 100 => $10
$1,000 => 1,000 => $1
$1,000 => 10,000 => $0.1
$1,000 => 20,000 => $0.05

Would you consider paying an extra $10 to get a working, stable, fast loading JA Teline II?</blockquote>

. . .
what i have to read O_O

omfg. some1 here have not understood a thing:
I’VE (and allothers too) ALREADY PAYED FOR A WORKING, STABLE JA_TELINE 2. And in a way or in another i’ll get it. otherwise i’ll be forced to take my countemisures.

[subfighter Friend subfighterJoin date: February 2007Posts: 86Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 7 Thanked: 1 times in 1 posts]

#258365

yeah we paid for a working version in numbers…. so joomlart should provide us and hire some more staff.

**** visigod posted many fixes that help me and other and they should pay him…

this site has a lot members that are paying.. and this is there more popular template at the moment so they should really be on it to fix it..

1.4

that crazy to pay again for someone else to fix it.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#258366

<em>@gaygiorgia 64797 wrote:</em><blockquote>. . .
what i have to read O_O

omfg. some1 here have not understood a thing:
I’VE (and allothers too) ALREADY PAYED FOR A WORKING, STABLE JA_TELINE 2. And in a way or in another i’ll get it. otherwise i’ll be forced to take my countemisures.</blockquote>

<em>@subfighter 64800 wrote:</em><blockquote>yeah we paid for a working version in numbers…. so joomlart should provide us and hire some more staff.

**** visigod posted many fixes that help me and other and they should pay him…

this site has a lot members that are paying.. and this is there more popular template at the moment so they should really be on it to fix it..

1.4

that crazy to pay again for someone else to fix it.</blockquote>

Hi gaygiorgia and subfighter,

The point is this: What if Joomlart will never do a thing with your complaint:

“I’VE (and allothers too) ALREADY PAYED FOR A WORKING, STABLE JA_TELINE 2“

will you sue them? will you just complain?

Or, we you just take it as being duped once, and be sure not to be a sucker again, in similar circumstances.

What should be in your mind is this: Do I want this template to work for me?

What I learned while in college is that when you negotiate, you must have alternatives. If you don’t, and the other side knows it, you will not make any progress. They will just stonewall you.

Cornelio

[ruigato Friend ruigatoJoin date: January 2006Posts: 74Downloads:0Uploads:6 Thanks: 48 Thanked: 1 times in 1 posts]

#258368

<em>@gaygiorgia 64797 wrote:</em><blockquote>. . .
what i have to read O_O

omfg. some1 here have not understood a thing:
I’VE (and allothers too) ALREADY PAYED FOR A WORKING, STABLE JA_TELINE 2.</blockquote>

exact.

We already payed for that. Regarding the support group, i would prefer paying the extra 10 or 20 to joomlart and get more stable templates and better support..

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#258370

<em>@ruigato 64803 wrote:</em><blockquote>exact.

We already payed for that. Regarding the support group, i would prefer paying the extra 10 or 20 to joomlart and get more stable templates and better support..</blockquote>

JA Developers pay $499 per year. And yet, they still have the same complaints.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#258371

<em>@ruigato 64789 wrote:</em><blockquote>No.. What is that template?

Regarding RT:
First i want to say that its not my habit to talk about competition neither compare other solutions in this kind of foruns but i want to give my 2 cents.
I am member of RT club since November 09, 2005 and i must say they are keeping better and better. Support team is great, ducumentation covers almost every aspect of each template including some customisation hacks.

I Like Joomlart, dont get me wrong, but in this things i think that its not a problem to look to the competition especialy the “top competition”. Its not imitate some people business but grab the good things and make it even better so Joomlart can be ahead in the future.
JoomlaJunkie (wich i am not a member) seem to relase very good templates recently also.

I already said i dont mind pay more or have just one template per month i that would make things better.</blockquote>

Yes, I visited RocketTheme from a tip from someone who has inside information before their new magazine template came out. I heard they indeed have good support, from a number of people. Right now though, they just do no have the kind of template I am looking for.

I have my eye on them, for awhile now, even before I became a member of Joomlart. When they come up with a good template that I want, I plan on getting that template. get as much help from them as possible.

Cornelio

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