Poor implementation

Forums    Joomla Templates Club    JA Teline II    Poor implementation
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  • terp Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 5:59 am #252637

    <em>@cgc0202 57870 wrote:</em><blockquote>Most of the problems reported here (some I have helped solve) is mostly because of the user not familiar with how Joomla works. </blockquote>

    Perhaps I need to practice populating a text field for a text logo? Everytime I put some text in there for the logo, it takes on whatever color it feels like for some sections. Perhaps I am spelling it wrong.

    I must have missed document.formvalidator errors in the Joomla for newbies handbook.

    I also didn’t read that you have to either move the pictures to the right side or add a few extra lines of ‘read more’ text to an article to get the Ja news to populate the homepage with text…**** Joomla.

    I am not trying to be a dick, though I suspect I am, but I started out asking nicely, then I get all these ‘it just works’ nonsense and a bunch of people assuming it is me, while, judging from the outstanding problems and number of posts, I am not alone.

    In a few hours, the second subsequent template will be released and there is no timeframe for fixing Ja news and other issues we are having. That, I think, was the original poster’s concern and the concern of many of us.

    …but I digress. I works perfectly. It must be me. Thanks, guys.

    terp Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 6:03 am #252638

    http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guatemala-times.com%2F

    Result: Failed validation, 283 Errors

    Holy cow.

    Menalto Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 6:08 am #252639

    <em>@terp 57895 wrote:</em><blockquote>http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guatemala-times.com%2F

    Result: Failed validation, 283 Errors

    Holy cow.</blockquote>

    If you take a closer look at all errors, how many of them is related to the template and not the html markup?

    For some people this template works straight out of the box, other seems to have a pain in the ass getting it working at all.
    But my biggest consern is all the versions, i have tested the first version that came out, working fine as it is.
    Downloaded version 1.2 and 1.3, here my problem starts, where is the .txt file with all the changes made since version 1.0 or 1.1?

    terp Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 6:18 am #252640

    <em>@Menalto 57896 wrote:</em><blockquote>If you take a closer look at all errors, how many of them is related to the template and not the html markup?</blockquote>

    Dozens out of the box, sir. I am surprised at the number of people who defend this practice…pumping buggy templates out every other week.

    I am sorry if we hit a sore nerve. You guys are right; these templates are rock solid and the problem is on our end. Sorry.

    Menalto Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 6:31 am #252641

    http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http://template15.joomlart.com/ja_teline_ii/

    This Page Is Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional!

    Here you can see what the template validation says from the demo server(which is the same product as in the downlaod section)

    nigelta Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 9:20 am #252667

    Well I have opened a can of worms :((. This wasn’t my intention but I agree that the documentation for what is a complicated template is lacking in useful information. Since using firebug as suggested I have managed to solve a lot of the problems but nevertheless I still maintain that a lot of the problems could have been solved before the official release and new problems are now arising with conflicts with additional modules and plugins, no doubt these can be sorted out in time.

    My original post was a rant from being totally frustrated with the setup and was never intended to be an insult to anyone, so apologies to anyone that was bothered by that. I would suggest though that more documentation is needed with future releases of complicated templates.

    Menalto Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 9:36 am #252670

    What i am trying to get going here is more complex testing of templates/extensions before the official release date, so we have a chance to sort out most of the bugs. REMEMBER:
    All this testing is done on a Joomla installation with the ORIGINAL add on’s that comes with Joomla, and the extensions(if any) that JA provides. And sample data installed
    We do not do testing with any other 3rd party add on’s, so we cant guarantee that the templates work straight out of the box with ex virtuemart or community builder.

    Documentation:

    This also needs imporvement, what i had in mind was to split up each part here.
    1- Template setup.
    2- Extension setup

    This means one well written guide for setup of the template, and one well written guide for the extensions(one for each extension).

    Atleast this is my opinion.

    cgc0202 Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 9:55 am #252673

    <em>@nigelta 57927 wrote:</em><blockquote>Well I have opened a can of worms :((. This wasn’t my intention but I agree that the documentation for what is a complicated template is lacking in useful information. Since using firebug as suggested I have managed to solve a lot of the problems but nevertheless I still maintain that a lot of the problems could have been solved before the official release and new problems are now arising with conflicts with additional modules and plugins, no doubt these can be sorted out in time.</blockquote>

    Hi nigelta,

    In this I agree with you completely, many customers have been clamoring for this and it is one among my first few requests. I keep on repeating, like a broken record that many of the problems here arise because:
    1) there are many of us who do not have solid background (if at all with scripting or programming) and as important, how servers work, sometimes.
    2) with no clue as to what is happening, we are bound to make mistakes. I was able to answer some questions asked here by new users because I encountered what seemed was a problem — in reality it was not — as newbies, we were just clueless. I was.
    3) a great deal of the problems we encountered would have been mitigated if we have some well-written guide to hold our hands a bit go through through the puzzle. Some staff point to some guide, but quite often, at least from my perspective, they were not written for those who are just beginning.
    4) a big part of the problem was that Joomlart is really a small operation, so that the obligation to come up with two templates per month forces sacrificing stuff like a well-written manual that should come with each release. The other consequence is that certain bugs are not fixed before release.
    5) the impact and consequence are the numerous postings asking for help (quite often repeated for the same thing), frustration abounds and fireworks result

    Just imagine if Joomlart just take the time, or hire someone to write some good manuals, complete with FAQs for likely “common errors” by new users. Even if they pay someone a thousand bucks — just consider the amount of time save by the staff, the Moderators and as important — the customers.

    The forum will be less popular but isn’t that really a bad thing? Maybe it will transform in us finding ways to make the templates even better.

    This problem is not unique with Joomlart. I am also a member of Gavick (to end today), they had a good manual with their News Package, but they have their own share of customer complaints.

    Cornelio

    cgc0202 Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 10:17 am #252676

    <em>@Menalto 57931 wrote:</em><blockquote>What i am trying to get going here is more complex testing of templates/extensions before the official release date, so we have a chance to sort out most of the bugs. REMEMBER:
    All this testing is done on a Joomla installation with the ORIGINAL add on’s that comes with Joomla, and the extensions(if any) that JA provides. And sample data installed
    We do not do testing with any other 3rd party add on’s, so we cant guarantee that the templates work straight out of the box with ex virtuemart or community builder.

    Documentation:

    This also needs imporvement, what i had in mind was to split up each part here.
    1- Template setup.
    2- Extension setup

    This means one well written guide for setup of the template, and one well written guide for the extensions(one for each extension).

    Atleast this is my opinion.</blockquote>

    I agree on both counts Menalto,

    This can happen though only if Joomlart has time to do this. One stumbling block is the two templates per month. When I came back here late May, I thought the “one template” per month is already in place, but to my dismay, there is yet another post (again?????) rehashing the same debate. Joomlart must think this carefully, or how to transition eventually into a single template per month. If I were to make the decision even longer in between releases.

    Gavick Pro, a company I joined last January 2008, seem to thrive with just one template a month (they are still late), and yet has a registered base (paying customers?) of about 15,000. Considering that the cost of membership per quarte is almost equivalent to a years subscription in Joomlart, they are in theory making more, even if they are a newer company than Joomlart.

    Thus, I think Joomlart may benefit if they have more time to create new templates, then test them as you stated, before they are released to the general customer population.

    To elaborate on your proposal, just like many software companies do, a pre-stable release will be done — the guinea pigs will be the more experienced customers (those with scripting background, those who are willing to evaluate stuff, and not gripe too much when something goes wrong, but more important, possibly help provide some solutions).

    This pretesting will allow also the write up of better Manual for each new release.

    Eventually, Joomlart must hire a staff who will focus on monitoring the Forum and deal with answering issues through a ticket process.

    Cornelio

    questbg Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 10:32 am #252678

    <em>@cgc0202 57938 wrote:</em><blockquote>
    This pretesting will allow also the write up of better Manual for each new release.
    Cornelio</blockquote>
    I’d be very happy, considering my ‘annual fee’, to only have one new release per month and more documentation/support, etc.

    Templates are awesome, but I’m not sure two per month is the way to go. Maybe some resources could be pointed at user guides, support, etc., than a second template?

    Maybe somebody (sorry, still a newbie) could set up a poll on the subject and once the results are in, then see if this is a way forward for Joomlart?

    cgc0202 Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 11:32 am #252688

    <em>@questbg 57941 wrote:</em><blockquote>I’d be very happy, considering my ‘annual fee’, to only have one new release per month and more documentation/support, etc.

    Templates are awesome, but I’m not sure two per month is the way to go. Maybe some resources could be pointed at user guides, support, etc., than a second template?

    Maybe somebody (sorry, still a newbie) could set up a poll on the subject and once the results are in, then see if this is a way forward for Joomlart?</blockquote>

    There has been a poll already on this questbg. The last time I looked in early February, majority of members were in favor of the proposal of Joomlart staff for one (1) template per month. However, there was a fierce opposition from a significant number of members who voted.

    Of course, less than 1% of members actually voted so, it is not clear whether the poll was really representative.

    Anyway, many people (including myself) tried to present the prudence of having only one template per month, and I was very vocal also in refuting the arguments of others — you can say it became a shouting match, or even a brawl (if you can feel the emotions that go with the words used) — very ugly really. I thought it was very bad, and not much was really happening here, so I decided to try Gavick Pro, and wait until Joomlart comes out with another template that I like came out.

    And, they did with JA Teline II.

    That was I came back a few weeks ago because this is the one I have advocated since the day I became a Joomlart customer.

    To my dismay, when I visited the forum, the issue about how many templates per month is still a hot topic.

    Cornelio

    questbg Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 11:39 am #252689

    Ah, many thanks Cornelio. I wasn’t a member back then so missed out on the poll.

    Personally I would have voted 1 template per month and more resources to support and documentation. But then, I’m not a developer, so don’t need lots of templates, one or two are more than enough for me, hence I would have voted for more resources to support!

    Easy to see why this kind of debate could have soon turned into a ‘two camps’ slanging match!!

    Me too … Teline II was my first download and, hopefully, my first ever Joomla site!

    Thanks again
    Chris

    cgc0202 Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 11:54 am #252691

    <em>@questbg 57955 wrote:</em><blockquote>
    Personally I would have voted 1 template per month and more resources to support and documentation. But then, I’m not a developer, so don’t need lots of templates, one or two are more than enough for me, hence I would have voted for more resources to support!
    </blockquote>

    My sentiment exactly Chris, and majority of the customers are in the same boat. I have only used one template when I was new — the original JA Teline. The issue you pointed out was one of my arguments, especially because there are very few deloper members. I agree that the developer’s concerns must be addressed but not at the expense of most of the members.

    I think the deal with Developers should be dealt with differently, say they could have a deal with Joomlart on the creation of clones — varying only with “whistles and bells” — to satisfy their clients.

    <em>@questbg 57955 wrote:</em><blockquote>
    Me too … Teline II was my first download and, hopefully, my first ever Joomla site!

    Thanks again
    Chris</blockquote>

    And, the only other template I use, after the original. Hypothetically, the JA Teline II, with some modifications (as well as focused extensions) and a lot of work of course, on the part of the site owner, can be adapted for many types of websites. The beauty is that unlike other templates — JA Teline II can grow with the growth of a website.

    Granted, there is more work that needed to be done with JA Teline II.

    It is too bad that many people are more attracted to the facade rather than the potential of a template.

    Cornelio

    bossep Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 3:46 pm #252740

    Hello Menalto,
    That was not a to nice view of my page!
    I did a vanilla install of the latest JA_Teline_II_v1.3_for_Joomla_1.5.x.zip Quick Install
    and it is still giving a few errors. http://www.guatemala-times.com/jomtest/index.php

    Just for the he… of it I tryed with the Joomla standard template on the test and no errors what so ever!
    I just made a quick flip on the main site and the amount of errors was reduced to 110 (not to proud of that!)

    Bosse

    bossep Friend
    June 9, 2008 at 3:57 pm #252743

    What version is the demo?
    After a lot of dicusions I have a feeling we have goten more “bugs” into the later versions.
    I had a few in the first I installed but they ware pretty easy to fix.
    And I also have a feeling there is a diferance between the version for Joomla 1.0 and 1.5.

    I do think it might be time for the good people at JA to take some time to revise this!

    Talking about my self, I dont mind helping out with testing BUT I need my production site to work well. I can live without some fancy stuff and use that on a test server until it is stable.

    I still belive that Teline is one of the nicest looking templates out there and probably the most popular one from JA but this could also be a disadvantage……
    So please try to pay a bit of attention to this tread.

    Bosse

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This topic contains 32 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  bossep 16 years, 5 months ago.

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