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[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#132602

I just read through another thread on teline II and the issues users have setting it up.

perhaps the templates should be rated by skill level.
teline II is for intermediate to advanced users, its the novices that are having the most problems. Lets face it, it is a complicated template in relation to a edenite and some of the others.

this would at least indemnify JA from some of the issues that are arrising. If your read through the threads, It looks like its a bad template and that it does not work, and that just is not true. Although it has had its bugs, its the inexperience of the users that are the issue.

So, should templates be rated and have a list of required skillsets?

Thoughts?

1 user says Thank You to mj1256 for this useful post

1. jaway

[jwellman Friend jwellmanJoin date: April 2008Posts: 543Downloads:0Uploads:6 Thanks: 115 Thanked: 59 times in 21 posts]

#267222

It sure wouldn’t hurt! Had we picked Teline as our first Joomla site we probably would have given up. We are curious to use the Teline template. We’ve been waiting for a site that would benefit from it but nothing has yet come into play.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#267225

mj,

Hypothetically, your proposal is a good idea, but it would depend on how you implement it. As important, do you use a template because it is easy to use? Or, because it is what you need?

Function vs Ease of Use:

If you want to set up an online newspaper, would you settle for the original Teline because it is much easier to use than Teline II? If you yourself will not opt for the easier to use template, then the focus must be: What can be done so that average user will have greater chance of using the proper template. Joomlart or any Joomla template company must realize, by now, the level of technical expertise of its customers.

Everything is difficult if there are no well-written manual, tutorials and FAQs

Let me ask you this: How will you rate the manuals, tutorials and FAQs provided with each template?

Who will evaluate what is difficult and who will prepare it?
JoomlArt? Or, another customer-initiated “collaborative effort” again? Considering that there are priorities more important that this feature, as a user, I would rather that Joomlart rate its own priorities. Mine would be:

1. Bug free templates before release to the general membership
2. Well-written manual intended for “new users” or those with no background in scripting (this is where Joomlart can integrate your proposal, about needed background
3. Regular well-documented Patch (Fix) Update for each Template

In the order indicated.

Beta version of a Template must not be released to the general membership
or at least, there must be an “Important Notes” document in the downloaded kit that the new release is still a beta version. That way, new users or those you consider as “technically challenged” members would know immediately that they must just be admiring the new templates, but not even touch them.

Maybe release it first only to volunteer Moderators, Developers and highly skilled people like you to find the bugs. This will allow Joomlart to claim that they released a template on schedule, even if it i still a beta version.

So, let me ask you, would you spend your time, debugging a beta version template? Considering your experience and level of skill, if you cannot honestly state that you will volunteer for this job of debugging, then the concept of level of skill is almost a peripheral concern.

If you have thoroughly analyzed many of the problems posted in the Forums, e.g, Teline II, the existence of bugs, quite likely in beta version, and the fixes themselves (see postings of Menalto on bugs in fixes) are among the major reasons for a significant number of the postings and new threads. From my experience with Teline II, it was released on 21 April 2008,but the nature of the key bugs were not identified and fixed until late July.

Template (Fix) Update

This will save a lot of time for customers, quite easy to do the update, and as a result will avoid errors encountered by what you consider as “tecnnically challenged members.”, and it will minimize request for help postings. Ultimately, it will mean less work for Joomlart staff and moderators. Unfortunately, I have not explained my proposal clearly enough to persuade Hung.

Cornelio

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#267235

my suggestion was so simple and now its getting dragged into all of the other issues. setting aside all of the other arguments, the question was

Should the templates be rated for level of difficulty or user proficiency?

as for tutorial quality, at what point have you finally got them dumbed down enough

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#267243

http://docs.joomla.org/Upgrading_1.5_from_an_existing_1.5x_version

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#267249

Ha Ha Ha

and people don’t get how to upgrade from that either

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#267256

this is now officially off topic

do tutorials have to be this specific

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#267257

and now, bring it back to topic, should templates be rated for degree of difficulty

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#267272

MJ,

I think in principle, more than likely customers will accept the idea you propose — it may be in the details of how it will be achieved that the proposal will hit some bumps (see analogy below):

Some details needed:

Who will do the work?

• Who will do the ranking? Joomlart? Are they willing to take the added responsibility?
• If they won’t would you accept the responsibility spearhead such a project?
• If not, who will?

How will the rating be done?

• Poll members? Dubious participation more than likely
• You volunteer the Staff or Moderators to device a scheme? 🙂
• Hire an expert to do prepare a “simple” process?

There are more that you have to spell out for the proposal to be considered properly, as to its practicability; but the above are complex enough. And, if they are not answered or no one will do it, the proposal is dead in the water.

To go back to your example Templates in the original thread:

What skills exactly are needed for Teline II that are not needed in other templates, for example Edenite?

If you remove features in Teline II, like the “Hot Topic”, “You Tube”, “Media” — which had bugs — many problems associated with Teline II will disappear. Someone who will attempt to place these in other “for the dumb” templates will encounter the same problems.

So maybe we should rate the difficulty of specific “extensions” then?

Thanks to Hainn, he provided the script that made the Hot Topic become a key feature in my ability to providie more flexibility, section or category customizability, increased page dynamism, etc., etc. to the template

But now I am stuck, because I could not find the “new bug” that introduced a new error in the Hot Topic module.

If I am not using the “Hot Topic”, my fresh install of latest Joomla1.3.6-Teline II is “perfect”

Cornelio

Analogy

Very few may go against the proposal:

We must improve the educational system in America (or replace America with your country here)

So simple. But there will be a lot of arguments on how to go about it.

• Republicans: School vouchers and tax rebates, choice, etc.
• Bush: No child left behind (passing the test being the main thrust)
• Democrats: More support for public schools, higher teacher salaries

and more depending on people’s perspective and political leanings. Because the political combatants could not agree on the details, educational reform in America remains very controversial, and the problems remain.

By rhe way:

I can simplify the Joomla (only) update to a one liner, a favorite mantra in this forum.

Download, unpack and upload (via FTP) the appropriate Joomla 1.5.x Patch

and works if you have done it before, and you know the limits. But, anyone who is a new user, will need the details included by Joomla experts in::

http://docs.joomla.org/Upgrading_1.5_from_an_existing_1.5x_version

In fact, your proposal must show such details if it were to be useful. You cannot just state: You must know, html, CSS, etc., etc. If that is your plan, you might as well forget it.

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#267275

its nice to see your sense of humor LOL

OK, good points

Who ranks the templates
What is the ranking criteria
Should extensions be ranked
What is the critria to rank extentions
Are the members polled
Can a ranking be upgraded or downgraded at a later date
Should we rank the moderators (karma)

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#267299

<em>@jwellman 75808 wrote:</em><blockquote>It sure wouldn’t hurt! Had we picked Teline as our first Joomla site we probably would have given up..</blockquote>

Do you have a link to your site John? The original Teline is easy to use. QuickStart install of Teline II is easy to do. If the conditions and support materials I outlined above were provided, Joomla 1.5.x-Teline II is easy to use. I opted to use Joomla 1.0.x-Teline II which did not have many of the bugs in Joomla 1.5.x-Teline II. I shifted to the latter only when I thought many of the bugs were finally fixed — sometime late July.

<em>@jwellman 75808 wrote:</em><blockquote>We are curious to use the Teline template. We’ve been waiting for a site that would benefit from it but nothing has yet come into play.</blockquote>

It is a misnomer to label Teline II simply as a news-magazine template.

If your site requires a presentation at more than one level , i.e., sections and categories, anything less than Teline II is not good enough, at least in terms of the aesthetics of presentation.

For example: if you use the original Teline, when you click on either a Section or Category, you just get links (not so nice to look at nor very informative without an “intro text” preview of the full text.

The aforementioned ” is solved in Teline II, you always get a preview (intro text) of the content of the featured articles in

The JA News component, as opposed to the JA News module, once it is bug free, can extend what could be done in Teline II to other templates.

Cornelio

[questbg Friend questbgJoin date: May 2008Posts: 1912Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 146 Thanked: 339 times in 197 posts]

#267315

In essence, I believe this is a great idea.

The trouble will come with actually deciding on the level of difficulty! What may seem easy to some of you people may be a nightmare for me!!

Perhaps, if a template could even be labeled (Level of PHP knowledge required, Level of HTML knowledge required, etc., etc.), it would be a start.

Unfortunately, this probably won’t be known until after release … unless one of the previous suggestions of having ‘beta testers’ was adopted. That was, you could select beta-testers at various stages of experience and see how they fair with the install, customisation and addition of content. Then rate it prior to final release?

This of course would also allow JA to fix any bugs encountered prior to final release too.

Had Teline II actually had a label as ‘advanced scripting knowledge necessary’ there is no way I would have downloaded it!! However, once I’d started doing the basic customisation (changing logo, adding banners, changing modules, etc.), it was way too late to go back!

🙂

Interesting topic of discussion though, please continue!
Chris

1 user says Thank You to questbg for this useful post

1. jaway

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#267424

<em>@questbg 75907 wrote:</em><blockquote>
Had Teline II actually had a label as ‘advanced scripting knowledge necessary’ there is no way I would have downloaded it!! However, once I’d started doing the basic customisation (changing logo, adding banners, changing modules, etc.), it was way too late to go back!
</blockquote>

But, if you did not use the Teline II Chris, and used any other template, when you click on a section or category, you just get a list of links, for the page that appears.

It is like getting something like your Contact Page — for any of the Sections and categories in your site.

Do you really want that?

A webcreator must select a template with defined ffeatures because it is what is needed.

To reiterate what I stated above, if you have more than one level classification (section => categories), then if want a good site, you have to select Teline II . Anything less would not be good enough –– unless you are satisfied with mere listing of article. However, with the new extension, JA News component, it is now theorethically possible to convert any template to have the features of Teline II/

When I first used Joomla, it was so easy for me to install my first Joomla page, because it came with a very detailed procedure (Level of difficulty=1). Without the detailed instructions, I would have been lost (Level of difficulty=10).

Cornelio

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#267425

i know, that was not a bug, you just change the type of link to blog section,

that shows that a level of proficency in joomla, not the template, is required

[jaway Friend jawayJoin date: September 2008Posts: 49Downloads:0Uploads:9 Thanks: 24 Thanked: 3 times in 2 posts]

#268915

mj1256;75844this is now officially off topic

do tutorials have to be this specific

Sometimes they do, we all need the occasional laugh when we are pulling out our hairs :laugh:

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