Recent issues regarding support claims and expressions

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  • Michael Casha Friend
    February 7, 2008 at 12:01 pm #125548

    If you’ve been sticking around here lately, you’ll see that we’ve had a few people complaining about support and a few other issues (censorship, etc).

    Now, there are obviously issues with recent Joomla 1.5 releases and holidays all at the same time. However, I want to work with each of you on resolving these issues.

    Firstly, you may know ShannonN who has been quite vocal about his issues. Some of the things he posted are incorrect, however the way I dealt with it probably wasn’t the best way – ShannonN, I would like to work with you to resolve your issues (if you’ll let me I’m happy to). I would also like to point out I did not delete any of your posts (this was done by someone higher up), and whilst I cannot find any point in which I called you a liar, in any case a better word should have been used with a different meaning. This was a mere misunderstanding.

    Secondly, I would like each and every one of you to help us and let us know each issue. Reply here with the issue. An example would be:
    “The JoomlArt Servers are always timing out”.

    Let’s keep this thread clean, and purely to state the issues, not to discuss them. We will look into each and everyone one of them.

    ShannonN Friend
    February 7, 2008 at 12:08 pm #238470

    MiCCAS;39612If you’ve been sticking around here lately, you’ll see that we’ve had a few people complaining about support and a few other issues (censorship, etc).

    Now, there are obviously issues with recent Joomla 1.5 releases and holidays all at the same time. However, I want to work with each of you on resolving these issues.

    Firstly, you may know ShannonN who has been quite vocal about his issues. Some of the things he posted are incorrect, however the way I dealt with it probably wasn’t the best way – ShannonN, I would like to work with you to resolve your issues (if you’ll let me I’m happy to). I would also like to point out I did not delete any of your posts (this was done by someone higher up), and whilst I cannot find any point in which I called you a liar, in any case a better word should have been used with a different meaning. This was a mere misunderstanding.

    Secondly, I would like each and every one of you to help us and let us know each issue. Reply here with the issue. An example would be:
    “The JoomlArt Servers are always timing out”.

    Let’s keep this thread clean, and purely to state the issues, not to discuss them. We will look into each and everyone one of them.

    I cannot work with you as my solicitor has advised me not to have contact with you, due to possible legal action

    I notice you have removed the post containing the contents of a private skype conversation from the forums, if any member has an auto subscribed email sent with that post please fwd it to me its in violation of the privacy laws in this country and is a major point for legal council.
    🙂

    ShannonN Friend
    February 7, 2008 at 12:36 pm #238472

    MiCCAS;39612If you’ve been sticking around here lately, you’ll see that we’ve had a few people complaining about support and a few other issues (censorship, etc).

    Now, there are obviously issues with recent Joomla 1.5 releases and holidays all at the same time. However, I want to work with each of you on resolving these issues.

    Firstly, you may know ShannonN who has been quite vocal about his issues. Some of the things he posted are incorrect, however the way I dealt with it probably wasn’t the best way – ShannonN, I would like to work with you to resolve your issues (if you’ll let me I’m happy to). I would also like to point out I did not delete any of your posts (this was done by someone higher up), and whilst I cannot find any point in which I called you a liar, in any case a better word should have been used with a different meaning. This was a mere misunderstanding.

    Secondly, I would like each and every one of you to help us and let us know each issue. Reply here with the issue. An example would be:
    “The JoomlArt Servers are always timing out”.

    Let’s keep this thread clean, and purely to state the issues, not to discuss them. We will look into each and everyone one of them.

    http://www.joomlart.com/forums/showpost.php?p=39469&postcount=11 is where you are calling me a liar, there is no misunderstanding, you think you are support manager and take way too much on deleting and editing posts defaming ppl may be ok.

    But posting private skype conversations on JA forums? is Illegal stuff in this country something to do with privacy laws and such, while the post was removed today I saw it and I’m sure many other did while it was there

    Lets see what Hung has to say when he gets the letter I sent him, you can erase the threads (mr higher up) but I have copies and some screenshots also members here get notified of every new post sure to have them as they were before they were removed. I’m sure I can get copies.

    Like I said before MiCCAS my balls clang when I walk, (their big and made of steel) I’m a nice guy till you put heaps of crap on me, then I bite back very hard, now what did that guy in US sue for a missing pair of pants? 6 million??

    wonder what I can get? 😉 Have a nice day

    mfcphil Friend
    February 7, 2008 at 4:28 pm #238488

    The server problem is getting worse and is even more annoying than the constanst threat of legal actions against JoomlArt and its workers that we have to read every day…this used to be a fun forum.

    Now it sucks. :((

    elfenwald Friend
    February 7, 2008 at 5:15 pm #238498

    Some feedback from a newbie here:

    – server: you could just run some load monitoring on the server and see if it is a server side issue. I had a bunch of timeouts last week / weekend, but its better now. Suspect the routing from Europe to your server is messed up due to the recent strange “coincidence” that 4 undersea cables in the Mediterranian/Gulf region were cut in one week. So routing to Iran, Iraq, India, Far East etc. is painfully slow right now from here.

    – email response times. 5 days (and counting) is well above any standard in internet business, at least an autoresponder telling people about the holiday and expected delays would be expected

    – forum support policy. A brief answer (“We know, working on a solution”, “Get lost, customization is your problem”) is better than just ignoring threads for several days.

    – I am new here and maybe it was just a bad week – but I had the impression that the support managers are infact more busy moderating the forum than doing actual support. The reason for which is usually on both sides…

    Looks to me like JA is in the somewhat painful process of growth and the transition from a nice little template club to a professional company with enough staff and ready to meet the professional expectations of a growing customer base…

    Hope I will be around long enough to watch this development happen 😉
    All best
    Martin (who’s criticism is always meant to be helpful, even if my words – English is obviously not my first language – may sound a bit harsh sometimes…)

    bigrk Friend
    February 7, 2008 at 7:10 pm #238522

    <em>@mfcphil 39635 wrote:</em><blockquote>The server problem is getting worse and is even more annoying than the constanst threat of legal actions against JoomlArt and its workers that we have to read every day…this used to be a fun forum.

    Now it sucks. :((</blockquote>

    I couldn’t agree more.

    elfenwald Friend
    February 8, 2008 at 8:23 am #238593

    just a suggestion to make things better:

    I see a lot of threads where emails “were not received” or where there is confusion if information/questions should be send by PM, email or posted to the forums…

    Unnecessary friction and loss of time and manpower.

    a decent helpdesk/ticket system would eliminate these problems – then it is absolutely clear who submitted what to whom and when, who of the support managers was assigned to that ticket, and who answered what and when (or not).

    Just my 2C after two of my own mails unanswered and a support request taking almost a week now (without a solution so far). I know from my own 18yr+ in business that clear communications and defined workflows are the only way to keep support in a growing business manageable…

    Hung Dinh Friend
    February 8, 2008 at 12:39 pm #238606

    Hi Elfenwald,
    Thank you very much for your suggestion, I have also contact the host server and they are working on the slow sever responding issues. Do you recommend any server monitoring service?

    About the ticket system. We have tried the solution, but clearly a support forum will be much better when people can share solution to common problem and making JA a fun forum.

    elfenwald Friend
    February 8, 2008 at 1:28 pm #238611

    <em>@Hung Dinh 39779 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hi Elfenwald,
    Thank you very much for your suggestion, I have also contact the host server and they are working on the slow sever responding issues. Do you recommend any server monitoring service?

    About the ticket system. We have tried the solution, but clearly a support forum will be much better when people can share solution to common problem and making JA a fun forum.</blockquote>

    Hehe…. I’ll send you a quote for my consulting time…;-)

    actually looking at the internal logs or running some cron would already give you an idea if there are peak times were the server load is just too high (or where others suck up all the servers power, e.g. in case you have some shared hosting or VPS). If your provider does not offer command line access – switch… 😉
    I had that problem once that my VPS was always slow or down during certain hours at night – where the hoster was running backups in such a stupid way that the whole machine got stuck for 2 hours…

    Ticket system: of course everyone has to find a solution that works best for him and his kind of customers. But it has to work. 😉

    My policy was and is:

    • set up rules what kind of issues you want/must support yourself and what can be left to user-to-user support
    • for the nice-to-have and community-stuff a forum is great. People can learn, share, make modifications, whatever…
    • for the stuff you have to support yourself, set up a ticket system. Be strict: NO other means of contacting support. Support issue = ticket. In case customers submit nonense or clearly non-support issues, strictly send them to the forums.
    • clearly define workflow and QA criteria. Tickets are assigned to specific support guys round-robin wise or department-wise, and this person is responsible for solving the problem in the given timeframe. If you tell people that they get an answer in 12 hrs max – stick to it. If you can’t keep it, hire staff or raise the announced timeframe.

    problem with forums, as clearly visible here:

    • “forum wars” and questions that are clearly not “core support issues” take up more time and manpower than the actual support for bugs and real problems.

    • a lot of serious problems and a lot of “steam” that usually would be dealt with in a more private setting in the ticket system is killing the fun factor. I would prefer to come to the forums to commute and exchange ideas with other users – and get rapid and efficient support in a dedicated support system when I need it.

    • information is not in one place and not trackable.

      • See my Fagus /SEF issue: in the original thread NO official reply has been posted, the few comments by Miccas are in different threads where we scratched that problem in different context, plus we had to PM and email. So information regarding one support problem is not in one place, I as the customer have to explain things several times, your support guys have to keep track of forum, PM, email and somehow get their act together and do their own info-management. Not efficient. And the result is – no result. I have no solution so far, and from my observations so far I am not the only one with serious issues that are not solved in an acceptable timeframe.

    • nothing is trackable. A support guy might just say “I did not get that email” or a customer might say “But I PMed you the requested info”. In a ticket system you see exactly in one place what was updated by whom and the exact content. No need to send login details twice – if a different support manager has to take over – he just reads through the ticket history and got all info he needs.

    ok, I do not sell ticketsystems (the best are free anyways 😉 ) – so I do not have to push you.
    But I have never seen a user-to-user forum succeed in the long run when at the same time its the place for official support…

    well, sorry for the novel… but I think the situation could really need improvements and I just share my ideas and experience.

    If you take it or not is up to you – in any case I would like to see my problem solved and my emails answered (one week ago I asked about the criteria for non-profit sites…) during the next days, the delays and non-communication just suck.

    sequenceinc Friend
    February 8, 2008 at 5:16 pm #238621

    <em>@Hung Dinh 39779 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hi Elfenwald,
    … but clearly a support forum will be much better when people can share solution to common problem and making JA a fun forum.</blockquote>

    Unless, of course, if your question never gets answered. I have posted a very simple question about where to find a particular piece of code, but either no one knows or no one answers. It is very frustrating to PURCHASE templates for which you believe some support will be provided, but then you don’t get any.

    Am I mistaken in thinking that help locating a bit of code is something the site owners should provide? I don’t know of anyone with a professional website who can use a template as-is with no modifications. And when a paying member asks for a small bit of help, is it unreasonable to think that help should be given?

    Here is the simple question I am referring to: http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/help-changing-font-size-in-main-body/

    mfcphil Friend
    February 8, 2008 at 8:09 pm #238631

    <em>@sequenceinc 39797 wrote:</em><blockquote>
    Am I mistaken in thinking that help locating a bit of code is something the site owners should provide?]</blockquote>

    In a word YES you are.

    JoomlArt does not have to assist you here.

    JoomlArt are trying to go to one template a month in the future so their staff will more have time to better assist its members in the Forums.

    Rightly or wrongly as it stands at the moment JoomlArt don’t have to help any of us.

    sequenceinc Friend
    February 8, 2008 at 9:57 pm #238638

    Interesting response. Here’s what the “membership benefits” says:

    <blockquote>You will have an account to access Templates Club Member Forums – Restricted to Members where you can get support if you have any problem using our templates. Our JA Forums is more than just a customer forum, but also a place where you can exchange ideas about and your experiences with Joomla! Web design and developments.</blockquote>

    Now… it says YOU CAN GET SUPPORT…

    I suppose you would say that they mean support from other members? But then that’s not really support in the way that most of us think of support, is it? When I think of “support” for a piece of software or template, I think about help from the makers of it who know the most about it.

    So if you are correct, then this means that JA does not promise to help anyone with anything once they purchase the membership? If that is the case, shouldn’t the advertising of the membership be worded to make that clear? How many people would purchase the membership if they knew it came with ZERO support from the people who make the templates.

    I feel that the support I have asked for is very limited and very reasonable. But I get nothing. I don’t think that is a very good business practice.

    This company is deceptive in their marketing and they provide the most horrible service to customers that I have witnessed. The templates are good but they treat the customers poorly.

    mfcphil Friend
    February 8, 2008 at 10:11 pm #238639

    read TERMS part 9

    9. SUPPORT: JA templates and products are delivered ‘as is’, with no implied meaning that they will function exactly as you wish or with all 3rd party extensions/products. Further, we offer no support via email or otherwise for installation, customization, administration of Mambo/Joomla etc. Private customer forums are available at our Forums. JoomlArt.com does not commit to monitor these forums, but we reserve the right to respond and answer questions.

    sequenceinc Friend
    February 8, 2008 at 10:56 pm #238643

    Well then it would seem as if the promotional material I listed above is false advertising.

    mfcphil Friend
    February 8, 2008 at 11:25 pm #238645

    Its not False Advertising Its down to interpretation…..Where does it say they would give you support

    “You will have an account to access Templates Club Member Forums – Restricted to Members where you can get support if you have any problem using our templates. Our JA Forums is more than just a customer forum, but also a place where you can exchange ideas about and your experiences with Joomla! Web design and developments. “

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