JoomlArt Forums 32,862 posts

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#294030

<em>@Hung Dinh 107966 wrote:</em><blockquote> “This restriction is applied to new and renewed memberships purchased….”</blockquote>

Hi Hung,

This is a ridiculous policy. I have yet to encounter a product (well those that I considered buying) that does this. I have to agree with VisiGod on this.

The standard has been: Free Use of software, the link stays. You pay, and you can remove the link.

Joomlart is being greedy to have it both ways. Joomla developers actually did most of the conceptual design and Joomla does not even insist on having its link advertised. This makes me wonder: Does Joomlart even contribute any of its profits to help fund Joomla initiatives?

I do not think any professional site will allow a free lifetime advertisement for any other site. Even Google pays websites, if any advertisement is placed in their site.

If this policy applies to Developers as well, then it will affect their ability to use your product to create websites for other professional sites.

Cornelio

[scotty Friend scottyJoin date: March 2008Posts: 2339Downloads:0Uploads:13 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 827 times in 595 posts]

#294031

It doesn’t apply to developers. Developers can remove all reference to Joomlart including source file.

[wooohanetworks Friend wooohanetworksJoin date: September 2008Posts: 1239Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 148 Thanked: 138 times in 41 posts]

#294033

<em>@VisiGod 115328 wrote:</em><blockquote>I am sorry to inform you Hung, but this new rule is simply not in compliance with the GPL, and its interpretation by Joomla!
All extensions (including templates), are considered as derivative works (with the exception of the image, css and js files in templates, but still without exception on the PHP files in templates) and therefore you can not forbid your customers to modify the PHP files in a manner they want (including removing the copyright).

So, if you put such restriction, this perfectly means your products are not in compliance with the license of the main product they are made for (in our case – Joomla!), which itself brings on the question are they legal in that way?

I think you should re-consider your position and once and forever state if Joomlart’s products would be in compliance with the Joomla! license or not. I think the too often changes on your terms is some bad indication and only confuses your customers.</blockquote>

The new template JA Cooper has no copyrights in the header of the files no more. What about the other copyright notices, well, let’s wait for a clarification from Joomlart.com.

[VisiGod Friend VisiGodJoin date: January 2006Posts: 538Downloads:0Uploads:4 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 138 times in 18 posts]

#294034

Hopefully we will get one and hopefully it will be cleared once and forever.

[wooohanetworks Friend wooohanetworksJoin date: September 2008Posts: 1239Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 148 Thanked: 138 times in 41 posts]

#294038

<em>@VisiGod 115344 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hopefully we will get one and hopefully it will be cleared once and forever.</blockquote>

I just see they do. Still contain the copyrights. I must have looked over some other similar looking bunch of files that was also opened in my editor. Sorry for that false information. So, still the same, let’s see what Joomlart.com will say. Thanks!;)

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#294040

<em>@scotty 115341 wrote:</em><blockquote>It doesn’t apply to developers. Developers can remove all reference to Joomlart including source file.</blockquote>

Scotty,

That is the impression you gave in another post. Where is the link to the official thread where that official policy for Developers has been stated by Hung?

Well, when it comes to Joomlart, it does use products from other software developers and those developers do not even require Joomlart that their linked be retained when they use those software and incorporate them into Joomlart templates — because Joomlart has acquired an unlimited use license for those products.

Anyway, if it does not apply to Joomlart Developer Members, then this is a way to get around the policy.

I am a Developer. So, technically, instead of buying a regular membership from Joomlart, a website owner can hire my services. And I can technically install, customize and do a bit of redesign for millions of websites or however many are willing — using any of the Joomlart templates — and have the “Designed by Joomlart” free advertisement removed.

Second alternative,: It will take less than five regular members to pay for a Developer license, to accomplish the same goal.

Both of the above two alternatives are legal based from Joomlart license to Developers.

Third alternative, as pointed out by a few posters already, it is so easy for each user “to remove” the “Designed by Joomlart” — the details were already posted by several members in a few threads. I am sure, those who feel strongly about this issue, like VisiGod, may not hesitate to enlighten others on how to do it.

Or, if you do not want or afraid to touch the script, just log in to the admin control panel

=> Extensions => Modules Manager.

and “unpublish” the footer module. That will take care of the issue.

Just a curiosity. What is Joomlart going to do, if there are enough members who will take either the two legal alternatives outlined above? It can technically drive the revenue of Joomlart without anyone violating Joomlart policy. And, if there are enough members who take the third alternative — which is not consistent with Joomlart policy — what is Joomlart going to do?

Spend its precious time monitoring webistes of Joomlart members to seek out violators? Then what? Sue each violator using the third alternative? Just to throw a bucket of water on this suing business. The multibillion dollar music industry was not able to make any dent by suing customers. The music companies just lost a lot of time and money. And most important, because they wasted their time, they lost the initiative to Steve Jobs of Apple, who by creating the iPod and now the iPhone, in conjunction with an easy to use iTunes, has the entire music industry dancing to his music.

I suggest that Joomlart should take lesson from Steve Jobs and the music industry. Concentrate on what you can do best — make the best templates. If you create the best, I am sure your best advertisement would be users of templates who then would recommend the products of Joomlart to other Joomla users.

Cornelio

[scotty Friend scottyJoin date: March 2008Posts: 2339Downloads:0Uploads:13 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 827 times in 595 posts]

#294043

cgc0202;115350
I am a Developer. So, technically, instead of buying a regular membership from Joomlart, a website owner can hire my services. And I can technically install, customize and do a bit of redesign for millions of websites or however many are willing — using any of the Joomlart templates — and have the “Designed by Joomlart” free advertisement removed.

Yes you can do this. But you’ll have to validate each one with JA also. You can not re-distribute the template though ie. give it to someone else. As i said in the ‘too many downloads’ thread, JA and similar companies have to rely of peoples honesty.

The developer info is in the developer FAQ…

DOWNLOADABLE PRODUCTS: You can download and use all the RELEASED templates, extensions and FUTURE templates, extensions in both JA Template Club and JA Extensions Club within your membership period.

UNLIMITED LICENSED DOMAINS: You are entitled to customize any templates, extensions for your clients on unlimited domains.

COPYRIGHT REMOVAL: You can remove our footer “Designed by JoomlArt.com” and changed it to “Designed/Powered by YourCompany” as well as other reference to JoomlArt.com

WHAT ELSE? You will have an account to access Templates Club Member Forums – Restricted to Members where you can get support if you have any problem using our templates and extensions. Our JA Forums is more than just a customer forum, but also a place where you can exchange ideas about and your experiences with Joomla! Web design and developments.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#294050

<em>@VisiGod 115344 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hopefully we will get one and hopefully it will be cleared once and forever.</blockquote>

VisiGod,

Maybe hoping is not enough. If there is enough uproar from the regular memberships — as this policy does not seem to affect Developers and their clients — more than likely, Joomlart will reconsider. This is the lesson that should have been learned by both members and Joomlart when it tried to implement its “call home” attempt to monitor compliance.

Cornelio

[VisiGod Friend VisiGodJoin date: January 2006Posts: 538Downloads:0Uploads:4 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 138 times in 18 posts]

#294051

<em>@cgc0202 115362 wrote:</em><blockquote>VisiGod,

Maybe hoping is not enough. If there is enough uproar from the regular memberships — as this policy does not seem to affect Developers and their clients — more than likely, Joomlart will reconsider. This is the lesson that should have been learned by both members and Joomlart when it tried to implement its “call home” attempt to monitor compliance.

Cornelio</blockquote>

Cornelio,

I am tired of discussing this and that. If Joomlart for all these years didn’t learn how to make business and to have happy customers, it would not happen ever.
You know, I am also a customer in other clubs. Where I am not discussing the quality of the products, I can assure you some of them are doing their business in a very good way. With a lot of clearance, correct communication and these people are not frustrating their clients every two months with some decision like this.

So, if JA is not in compliance, it will just make me reconsider if I would like to have business relations with them in future.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#294052

<em>@scotty 115355 wrote:</em><blockquote>Yes you can do this. But you’ll have to validate each one with JA also. You can not re-distribute the template though ie. give it to someone else. As i said in the ‘too many downloads’ thread, JA and similar companies have to rely of peoples honesty.

The developer info is in the developer FAQ…</blockquote>

Scotty,

Nothing in the FAQs you quoted require that you have to have it validated by Joomlart. The only requirement is that you register the website domain URL.

If I go the roundabout route, via a Developer and make the “deletion” legal: it is not redistributing if you install, customize and redesign the website using a Joomlart Template.

Joomlart actually did even less with a slideshow software where they bought an unlimited license with the original developer. They just integrated it as a “module” in some of their templates. The original slideshow developer had no objections.

In fact, if I am not mistaken, the slideshow extension that Joomlart has tried to develop and sell it separately to members was based largely from the concept of the slideshow from the other third party developer. I have no intention of using it because there are better slideshow, both free or at a very cheap cost, that would provide more flexibility and also allows hyperlinking. To my knowledge, the slideshow developed by Joomlart is not capable of hyperlinking to use the a photo to go to specific articles, sections or categories, or other segments of the site.

Cornelio

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#294056

<em>@VisiGod 115363 wrote:</em><blockquote>Cornelio,

I am tired of discussing this and that. If Joomlart for all these years didn’t learn how to make business and to have happy customers, it would not happen ever.
You know, I am also a customer in other clubs. Where I am not discussing the quality of the products, I can assure you some of them are doing their business in a very good way. With a lot of clearance, correct communication and these people are not frustrating their clients every two months with some decision like this.

So, if JA is not in compliance, it will just make me reconsider if I would like to have business relations with them in future.</blockquote>

VisiGod,

I agree with your sentiment. I do not know why Joomlart is wasting so much time concocting these schemes, instead of spending their time improving not only the template, but Joomla itself.

For example, I have seen, more versatile news-magazine templates, for example that can do many of the functions I wanted that can be done in commercial sites, like the New York Times. As much as I like the Teline II, it is very slow because it is not optimized. Many members, including Menalto, have suggested ideas on what should be done, but instead of encouraging such initiatives, sometimes Joomlart deleted posts meant to improve the process.

Cornelio

[jakerlund Friend jakerlundJoin date: December 2006Posts: 38Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanked: 4 times in 1 posts]

#295603

Since i only put up a site now and then mostly to play with or temporary for a project i’ve been satisfied with the yearly member fee to try out new themes… but having to pay to remove the footer which i didn’t have to before makes me rethink signing up for a new period.
I like to try out new themes but i don’t like the rules being changed… what will be changed within the next year, forced to use banners?… it was easier before no activation/validation and copyright removal fees.
For a company it’s probably a no brainer… but for private use testing temporarely installations :confused:

[wooohanetworks Friend wooohanetworksJoin date: September 2008Posts: 1239Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 148 Thanked: 138 times in 41 posts]

#295666

<em>@jakerlund 117268 wrote:</em><blockquote>
I like to try out new themes but i don’t like the rules being changed… what will be changed within the next year, forced to use banners?</blockquote>

As long you only change the theme or an already licensed domain that you have the right already to remove the footer and removed it there, you can do the same with any new template you put on this domain or subdomain. Meaning those rules apply to the domain registered but not the template used. When you change the old template with footer removed to a new one, you can remove the footer as well, as this domain was and is licensed under the terms and conditions of the domain registration here at Joomlart.com and this you did with the right to remove the footer.

Banners can you add to your site when you sign up for the Affiliate program and get paid for any member you refer, all I can say.;)

[jakerlund Friend jakerlundJoin date: December 2006Posts: 38Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanked: 4 times in 1 posts]

#295734

<em>@wooohanetworks 117363 wrote:</em><blockquote>As long you only change the theme or an already licensed domain that you have the right already to remove the footer and removed it there, you can do the same with any new template you put on this domain or subdomain. Meaning those rules apply to the domain registered but not the template used. When you change the old template with footer removed to a new one, you can remove the footer as well, as this domain was and is licensed under the terms and conditions of the domain registration here at Joomlart.com and this you did with the right to remove the footer.

Banners can you add to your site when you sign up for the Affiliate program and get paid for any member you refer, all I can say.;)</blockquote>

Good point 😉

Still… feels wierd that the rules are changing and things get unnecessary complexed.
If people want to pirate they will do so with or without footer or validation.

Microsoft is a good example on how wrong things can get with to much control… serials, activations and when you need to reinstall on a new HD you are in serious problem trying to reactivate and so on… that has never stopped people pirating their software.
Even Adobe has taken that road and annoys the hell out of customers with stupid activations… i recently changed from a PC/Win to Mac and upgraded all my Adobe software and did a platform switch…. and since the old PC allready was broken i couldn’t deactivate the old software…. it took lots of phonecalls, emails and finally i had to sign a paper for each program promesing that i didn’t have them installed on the old PC and fax them to their headquarter.
That process took forever before they sent me the new software for the Mac versions… which i asked if they could skip and just send me the serials to unlock the demo versions… but no no…. they had to send the boxes for each program…. and the only thing i needed from those were the serials, and ofcourse agsain do new activations for each program… completely annoying and frustrating.

Apple on the other hand is moving away from serials since they know it won’t stop pirating anyway and it’s more important to make things easy for the customer.
You can install OS X or iLife/iWork without any serial or activation… it’s a happy and smooth ride all the way.

Keep it simple and get happy customers!

Cheers

[wooohanetworks Friend wooohanetworksJoin date: September 2008Posts: 1239Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 148 Thanked: 138 times in 41 posts]

#295741

That’s right, and you know, as you talk about many changes in a short time frame, I really liked the orange styled “Licensed Member” a lot more than the new white and green ones.

Okay, Apple is another planet, they do not have so many users and abusers. They sell their systems for a much higher price and the people who only use their computers for serious business activities or professional design creation whatever will more rarely be the abusers of the softwares etc..

So, this is the reason why there you have a more hassle free process. Windows systems you can buy for 199$ including OEM Software and the people who can’t afford the licensed version use the hacked ones, BUT, those people are rarely those ones who are like mac users, they rarely use it for business and when so, they will not be the guild we know as serious pros.

Pros rather use PS Elements when they can’t afford the CS4, as you know, not really the software used makes a person a pro but how the person works and what he can achieve even with the lower “professional” version. As seriously, do you think, as an example, anyone is giving a **** sh” about the new mirror effects one can create or the flash like animations. This is something for the people who need to glance with default effects they get with their “professional” CS4 but have nothing else to glance with as those.

So, back to the licensing issue, okay, when all users are like apple users here, why not changing the ways of business, like JoomlaXTC.com does, you purchase a membership, do not have to license anything, no domain tools like with all the other clubs or entitlements like it is called at Rockettheme.com, no issues about footer or copyright removal, no restrictions on use if commercially unlimited or personal blogs, only the note to be so cool and not to hand those to others for free and not to support piracy sites. This is also not bad, but I think JoomlaXTC.com is run by ONE guy with his skills, and he has the most skills in the whole Joomla world, from what I see, and here it is a company, some with RT, Yoo, Shape5, all the others, mostly companies that feel they need to let customers go through such procedures and when they think it is useful tor their business, they are free to do so.

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