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[renejdm Friend renejdmJoin date: April 2012Posts: 186Downloads:0Uploads:38 Thanks: 8 Thanked: 12 times in 1 posts]

#177705

Hi Everyone,

I have been playing around with FeedGator, looking for content to add to my Wall. Many websites have the following copyright notice (or Terms and Conditions) for RSS feeds:

Example: From NYTimes:

“We encourage the use of NYTimes.com RSS feeds for personal use in a news reader or as part of a non- commercial blog. We require proper format and attribution whenever New York Times content is posted on your web site, and we reserve the right to require that you cease distributing NYTimes.com content.”

My question is: What are the legalities of displaying full source feeds on your website (with the proper attribution that is already provided by FeedGator)? Has anyone done any research on this?

Your comments would be appreciated.

Rene

[ubelmort Friend ubelmortJoin date: January 2012Posts: 32Downloads:0Uploads:0 Thanked: 2 times in 1 posts]

#455480

I’ve had the same thought as well. Because I’d like to grab RSS feeds from sites but I’m pretty sure I’d be asked to remove the feeds if the site ever generates enough traffic.

[tfosnom Friend tfosnomJoin date: October 2010Posts: 742Downloads:0Uploads:31 Thanks: 145 Thanked: 200 times in 94 posts]

#455504

<em>@renejdm 322861 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hi Everyone,

I have been playing around with FeedGator, looking for content to add to my Wall. Many websites have the following copyright notice (or Terms and Conditions) for RSS feeds:

Example: From NYTimes:

“We encourage the use of NYTimes.com RSS feeds for personal use in a news reader or as part of a non- commercial blog. We require proper format and attribution whenever New York Times content is posted on your web site, and we reserve the right to require that you cease distributing NYTimes.com content.”

My question is: What are the legalities of displaying full source feeds on your website (with the proper attribution that is already provided by FeedGator)? Has anyone done any research on this?

Your comments would be appreciated.

Rene</blockquote>

I guess you really need to take the time to read the all T&C’s of all content providers, which is probably an impossible task given the enormity of feed choice and just going to each provider and locating the T&C.
But assuming you limit the nuber of feeds to 10 then after reading the blurb you do find like the NYT T&C restrictions like . . .”personal use in a news reader or as part of a non- commercial blog”

Then you have to look at what your site is in the eyes of the provider, that being ‘let’s classify our site and define what is a commercial site?

I.E.
Joe Adams is a hobbyist part time web developer, he considers his own web design site as personal.

Why?
because it is a part time hobby that doesn’t have any real commercial trappings like a registered company name, offices, doesn’t employ staff.

Really apart from his contact details and broad ballpark pricing for el cheapo web sites’ it has no real marketing advertising, but provides great hints, tips & links to template clubs. His feed therefore are template clubs, developer blogs and good clean useful, industry targeted stuff..

The fact that it offers a service for payment (web design) deems is a commercial venture in my opinion. This I feel is the probable viewpoint big business’ that are always eager to sue or bully, (Microsoft, Apple, IBM. McDonalds et al) if they feel threatened or misued in any way.

I think in most cases, news services such as NYT and others wouldn’t really have time to venture to each site that subscribes to its feed just to check its use of the content, unless they have had some complaint etc.

Just my 2 cents worth
Shannon

[ubelmort Friend ubelmortJoin date: January 2012Posts: 32Downloads:0Uploads:0 Thanked: 2 times in 1 posts]

#455522

Yea, I’m crossing the idea behind my head to have it as a sub-domain to a site that I would be offering advertising space but wouldn’t offer advertising space on the Wall Subdomain and hoping that the big businesses don’t bother me to much… But as of right now the Feeds that I would be grabbing I have read their T&C’s and they just state they want a Link Back to their site.

[tfosnom Friend tfosnomJoin date: October 2010Posts: 742Downloads:0Uploads:31 Thanks: 145 Thanked: 200 times in 94 posts]

#455524

@ubelmont
While we know what is mean’t by a link back to a site. legally, would the feedgator feed itself be considered (linking) back to their site as it continuely crons the set sites feeds thereby ‘linking’ back from your site to their site 😉
Shannon

[renejdm Friend renejdmJoin date: April 2012Posts: 186Downloads:0Uploads:38 Thanks: 8 Thanked: 12 times in 1 posts]

#455526

Hi,

I have been doing some more research into this and I have a few links for you to look at:

http://www.feedforall.com/rss-copyright-debate.htm

http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2005/08/blog_content_ag_1.htm

From this link (http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2010/09/09/news-aggregation-and-copyright-law/) there are a few pointers for RSS aggregators:

Five “best practices” for aggregators to follow to minimize their risk.

Those practices include:

1) Reproduce only those portions of the headline or article that are necessary to make your point or to identify the story. Do not reproduce the story in its entirety.
2) Try not to use all, or even the majority, of articles available from a single source. Limit yourself to those articles that are directly relevant to your audience.
3) Prominently identify the source of the article.
4) Whenever possible, link to the original source of the article.
5) When possible, provide context or commentary for the material you use.

Rene

P.S. Notice how in point #1 it says to NOT reproduce the entire article.

[John Wesley Brett Moderator John Wesley BrettJoin date: July 2013Posts: 2142Downloads:17Uploads:26 Thanks: 175 Thanked: 645 times in 426 posts]

#455527

I think the bottom line is: Are RSS Feeds in Wall Illegal? – NO – RSS technology is legal[/h]
Is not abiding by the restrictions placed on individual feeds Illegal? –
‘Illegal’ is probably too strong a word, but you ABSOLUTELY should abide by restrictions, copyrights, etc. placed on the use of individual feeds[/h]
Have fun!

1 user says Thank You to John Wesley Brett for this useful post

1. Arvind Chauhan

[renejdm Friend renejdmJoin date: April 2012Posts: 186Downloads:0Uploads:38 Thanks: 8 Thanked: 12 times in 1 posts]

#455530

Hi Everyone,

First off, please do not close this thread. The other thread I started about a very important issue that affects all WALL builders was closed prematurely.

Here is some more info that you might want to read before using RSS Feeds to build your WALL.

You can download a more in-depth discussion (pdf format) from this link:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1670339

Another link about RSS scraping:

http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2006/08/29/why-rss-scraping-isnt-ok/

Some more info:

http://www.pixiq.com/article/rss-copyright

And finally, some legalese:

http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/

The more I read about the grey area of reproducing other websites’ feeds on your WALL, the more worried I become.

While the chances of having someone file a law suit against you may be slim, nobody wants this to happen. Also, there is the ethical issue. My other post talked about it being illegal. jwbrett says it is not illegal (but respect posted limitations). Unfortunately jwbrett is incorrect.

So be very cautious about reproducing content from other website, even if you only are reproducing the title and lede portion.

Your further comments on this issue are welcome. Also, if anyone has experienced legal issues concerning RSS Feeds, your commentary is extremely welcome.

Rene

[renejdm Friend renejdmJoin date: April 2012Posts: 186Downloads:0Uploads:38 Thanks: 8 Thanked: 12 times in 1 posts]

#455534

Here is an interesting answer from nolo:

http://dearrichblog.blogspot.ca/2011/05/can-i-republish-rss-feed.html

Can I Republish an RSS Feed?

Dear Rich: I’m interested in linking to a RSS feed which I subscribe to in an online website I’m developing. I can’t seem to find any guidelines about how to use this content. Do I need to get permission to use the content if its from a company’s RSS feed? What about a federal government website?

As you may be aware, an RSS feed is a method of delivering news or any other form of digital content that is published regularly (for example, blogs, podcasts or video) — hence the name, Real Simple Syndication. Originally RSS was simply for text but supposedly ex-MTV DJ Adam Curry encouraged RSS feed inventor Dave Winer to add “enclosures” into RSS feeds so that these feeds would recognize MP3 files. That’s how podcasting and video casting were born.

Unless an RSS feed is created by federal government employees within the course of their duties, you should presume that the material provided in the feed is protected under copyright law. RSS is simply a method of delivery and just like other delivery systems — television signals, radio transmissions, and newspaper deliveries — the medium doesn’t affect the copyright status of the message. If all you’re pulling from the feed is the headline or blog entry title, that’s probably not an issue. In addition, many news outlets modify the feeds and provide a paragraph from each item along with a link back to the source (and whether that qualifies as a fair use has not been fully resolved, yet).

Rene

[John Wesley Brett Moderator John Wesley BrettJoin date: July 2013Posts: 2142Downloads:17Uploads:26 Thanks: 175 Thanked: 645 times in 426 posts]

#455560

I closed the thread because the forum is for issues regarding the JA Wall Template – NOT whether Using RSS Feeds are illegal. A more appropriate place to discuss this would be in a RSS Community Forum or perhaps FeedGator itself.

Is showing your Facebook Feed violating the privacy of those who may happen to appear? These questions have nothing to do with the functionality of JA Wall.

1 user says Thank You to John Wesley Brett for this useful post

1. Arvind Chauhan

[renejdm Friend renejdmJoin date: April 2012Posts: 186Downloads:0Uploads:38 Thanks: 8 Thanked: 12 times in 1 posts]

#455573

Hi Everyone and jwbrett,

This is the last post I will make concerning RSS Feeds because it is a very touchy subject with Joomlart staff/moderators.

@jwbrett,

You closed 2 of my prior posts stating that this is not a JA Wall issue. But of course it is. FeedGator is a first-class citizen in JA Wall. The template is built around it (same with the social feed). When I first saw JA Wall, I thought “Oh this is great, now I can get free content.” However, I did some research into this and found out that it is ILLEGAL to reproduce RSS Feeds unless the owner of the content gives you express permission.

So you can reproduce content at your own risk (this includes the lede). The lede is the short 2-3 lines of intro for the feed. While small sites will probably get away with it, sites that grow may well have expensive legal problems in the future; not to mention the ethical aspect.

Now do not get me wrong. I love JA Wall and it is great for what I plan on doing. I will just be using very little RSS feeds (the ones that give me permission or that have a variation of the Creative Commons license).

I make this post as a service for the other Wall builders on this forum. It is better to be informed about an issue rather than burying your head in the sand and hoping that the problem will go away.

Respectfully,

Rene

2 users say Thank You to renejdm for this useful post

1. tfosnom
2. vineyardseashell

[John Wesley Brett Moderator John Wesley BrettJoin date: July 2013Posts: 2142Downloads:17Uploads:26 Thanks: 175 Thanked: 645 times in 426 posts]

#455622

Thank you for your continuing passion regarding the dangers of RSS Feeds.
We hope no one uses our templates for illegal purposes and in illegal ways. Or, since RSS Feeds can be used in ANY website, that they do not use them there either.

Perhaps this is a good place to remind everyone in some areas it is illegal to post pornographic material on your site.
It is illegal to sell firearms and illicit drugs from your website. Online gambling, don’t do that either unless you are in an area in which it is legal. Check the fine print.

And for those of you who have found these posts as part of your research and searching of a legitimate technical problem regarding RSS feeds…we sincerely apologize for wasting your time.

Have fun!

3 users say Thank You to John Wesley Brett for this useful post

1. pavit
2. Manos
3. Arvind Chauhan

[vineyardseashell Friend vineyardseashellJoin date: March 2011Posts: 163Downloads:30Uploads:20 Thanks: 60 Thanked: 19 times in 1 posts]

#455630

@jbrewett

A simple ‘this isn’t really a technical issue, but you do have a valid concern, so I’m going to move this thread over to the XYZ conversation area for further discussion’ would have shown more class and professionalism.

Vineyardseashell

[John Wesley Brett Moderator John Wesley BrettJoin date: July 2013Posts: 2142Downloads:17Uploads:26 Thanks: 175 Thanked: 645 times in 426 posts]

#455631

<em>@vineyardseashell 323067 wrote:</em><blockquote>@jbrewett

A simple ‘this isn’t really a technical issue”..would have shown more class and professionalism.

Vineyardseashell</blockquote>

I agree. I’ve been trying to do that…

<em>@renejdm 322989 wrote:</em><blockquote>
You closed 2 of my prior posts stating that this is not a JA Wall issue. </blockquote>

..repeatedly. 🙂

1 user says Thank You to John Wesley Brett for this useful post

1. Arvind Chauhan

[vineyardseashell Friend vineyardseashellJoin date: March 2011Posts: 163Downloads:30Uploads:20 Thanks: 60 Thanked: 19 times in 1 posts]

#455633

As a moderator, you should have simply moved the thread versus locking a thread- not once but twice, paying lip service and then making light of a customer’s valid concerns, questions, and comments.

While your actions/comments were directed at someone else, you made me feel most unwelcome and belittled as a paying customer of JA.

Quite honestly, I believe the topic has validity and should be discussed here in the JA Wall forum and not elsewhere. I’m sure there are others pondering the grey areas of RSS feeds.

Vineyardseashell

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