Site Of The Month June 2008 – Poll

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  • cgc0202 Friend
    June 29, 2008 at 11:44 pm #257072

    <em>@nigelta 63238 wrote:</em><blockquote>I disagree Cornelio. If someone has bothered to go that far with a commercial template then why not just produce the template from scratch? The other thing I feel should be considered is the application of a template. Does it suit the subject, are the graphics neatly done and optimised – basically does it work as it should?

    The competition in some peoples eyes is based totally on how it looks, agreed it is difficult sometimes to assess a site when it is produced in a language that you don’t understand but that shouldnt stop anyone assessing its function.

    Maybe in future, when the nominations go up, they should have some sort of description in both English and the sites native language. If this isn’t available then it becomes difficult to assess the application of the template and it becomes more of a graphics contest.</blockquote>

    Hi nigelta,

    Can you guess which one I picked?:) Unfortunately, my pick will not win. I do not think people appreciate what went into the customization, and how far it has advanced what is possible with the JA Teline II. Maybe Joomlart staff should take a look.

    The contest as far as I see them are really not that serious, considering the number of sites to choose from are not enough to make a serious choice because there are really no defined criteria. If good graphics is a great consideration, then those with graphic arts background would win. If customization is a consideration, as I did, then those with scripting background would have a greater advantage.

    So, the popularity contest is fine by me. It will reflect the values of those voting.

    I am with Tom on this. To cite his mantra “A template is only a starting point . . . The magic is in what you do with it from there.”

    For example, I used Gavick Pro News for example, and Gavick likes black so much, so I spent quite sometime, not only to transform the background to white, but then used the dynamic layout of the Gavick News modules to transform my demo pages into something very different from the original template. If only I know a bit more scripting, I could transform the Gavick Pro News into something not enivisioned by Gavick.

    <em>@nigelta 63238 wrote:</em><blockquote>I disagree Cornelio. If someone has bothered to go that far with a commercial template then why not just produce the template from scratch? .</blockquote>

    Not sure about that. Have you ever tried to start from scratch? And create all the css? I did before CMS are readily available. If paid myself, just $20 per hour (which is a bit low, the common rate here in the US is $50 up), I could have many lifetime developer subscriptions to Joomlart.

    Well done commercial templates literally cost $10-40K, even if you hire programmers in the Philippines, or India.

    It is not that easy to start from scratch, if you are by yourself. Creating the basic skeleton of a template, if poorly done can create some great problems, especially when optimized to as many browsers — that is the most difficult part mostly because of Internet Explorer, and sometimes Safari.

    So, that is why Developers buy templates — it is far easier to modify and further customize a template that is already optimized. I know a team who did it in house, and it took them months to transform the TikiWiki site to their commercial website.

    The JA Teline II actually is a very complex template than its simple look — it is all in the scripting that does not show. If it were, all template companies would have one now.

    That was why I lambasted someone here for suggesting that a poorly done template is a good alternative to JA Teline II. Apparently, the person does not know what it takes to create a magazine template, and he did not really bother analyzing both templates — Teline Ii and what it was compared to.

    However, there are obvious weaknesses in the skeleton of JA Teline II, that is why it is very fragile. and breaks down easily when people attempt to add stuff without full understanding of the CSS. I think it will take time before Joomlart can get it right, if they have any plan to do so.

    I would gladly pay more for a more stable JA Teline II or that would be Teline III already? It would be good to have what professional online magazine templates take for granted.

    Cornelio

    anisjolly Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 7:53 am #257132

    I agree

    in fairness – I’ve spent over 3 months customizing my Corona template to what i want it like. (site.voiceofbolton.com) and to be honest when I look at the Teline sites – I feel that the only changes there are logos and images. the rest is the same.

    I’ve done quite a lot of development work on my site and integrated lots of different components and modules and also customised them to fit the look and feel of my site.

    I used corona as a stepping stone but I didn’t want my corona template to look like everyone elses. The whole host of features my site gives to users is somewhat different to the other sites in the poll.

    Feel free to browse around and if you think my site is worth a vote, then please vote for it. As I say, I’ve spent months customizing it) and I’m nearly there finishing it. the siteis due to launch in a couple of weeks.

    Yes, there are no images on the site at the moment and that is because I do not want to step on the Premier Leagues toes because of copyright. I’m currently working to agree a deal which will allow me to use OFFICIAL premier league photographs for articles which my editors can use.

    Anis

    questbg Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 9:02 am #257152

    Hi Anis

    <em>@anisjolly 63315 wrote:</em><blockquote>to be honest when I look at the Teline sites – I feel that the only changes there are logos and images
    </blockquote>

    Whilst this is quite true to a certain extent, that rather suits me. The only reason I joined JA was to get the Teline II template. I just want my site to look/feel/work exactly the same as the demo version, so I’m not too worried if I’ve not done loads of customisation, etc., or even if my site looks like any other half dozen Teline II sites.

    I won’t even bother entering it in Site of the Month when it goes live as I know it will look just like the Teline II demo and I wouldn’t win!!

    Cheers
    Chris

    nigelta Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 10:13 am #257183

    The main problem with the Teline II template is that it does its intended job (looks wise) straight out of the box. Its a magazine template and apart from changing the logo, colour scheme etc there isn’t really a lot of customization called for.

    This is a typical instance of when the application of the template should take priority. The template itself is never going to win a beauty competition and thats the main reason I want my site withdrawn from the poll. I just don’t want people judging the front end of the site when its the back end that has received all the work. A lot of people that have made comments about my site and others using this template should have simply kept their fingers off the keyboard instead of at best, stating the obvious and at worst, coming out with silly comments – any fool can do that.

    The CSS and SEO works great (after 8 weeks of tweaking), in fact, within four days of going live I am getting front page search results in Google and that is what I set out to achieve. When I submitted the site for opinion to certain important members of the motorcycle manufacturing community, it has come back with nothing but positive comments and opinions. In fact there have been one or two suggestions but not a single negative comment.

    The Bikerworkshop site will do either of two things (and maybe both), that is quickly establish itself as one of the market leaders in its particular niche or start a rush of new sites onto the market because there is very little competition in this bracket at the moment.

    In my view, there can be no better accolade for the Teline II template than this because it is what it was originally designed for.

    nigelta Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 10:25 am #257185

    <blockquote>but those who have put forth visible effort in working on their sites – which includes modification/’customization from the base template – are the ones worthy of recognition in a “Site of the Month” poll/competition</blockquote>

    Correct – if the site works as it should but completely wrong if it doesn’t. This is exactly the point I was trying to make. St Lucy’s golf for instance, I can understand people going wow at the logo and very pretty it looks too, but for me it overpowers the site and this competition isn’t an exercise in Photoshop.

    For me personally, the site just doesn’t flow and although the main graphic seems to have been reduced in size somewhat, it is still a big item to have to load on every page.

    anisjolly Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 11:54 am #257207

    <blockquote>but those who have put forth visible effort in working on their sites – which includes modification/’customization from the base template – are the ones worthy of recognition in a “Site of the Month” poll/competition</blockquote>

    That’s exactly what I meant.

    People who spend a lot of their time trying to make their site more personal rather than just add content here and there should be recognised.

    I guess I’m just a bit miffed as I’ve spent months on mine whereas others that have more votes look just like the demo with some slight content difference. 😉

    Therefore my efforts go completely un-noticed. >:(

    Oh well!

    Looks like I won’t be submitting another site which has been customized because I know it won’t get any votes unless it looks like the demos! >:(>:(>:(

    questbg Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 12:07 pm #257209

    Hi Anis

    <em>@anisjolly 63396 wrote:</em><blockquote>I guess I’m just a bit miffed as I’ve spent months on mine whereas others that have more votes look just like the demo with some slight content difference. 😉
    </blockquote>

    To be frank, I really like your site, and it was 3rd on my voting list, unfortunately, I’m only allowed one vote, otherwise, you’d have been on the rostrum in my camp!

    If I had to choose a reason why you didn’t win, I’d have to say your translation to French is absolute garbage, the German was worse and the rest … don’t even go there. Nothing, but nothing makes sense.

    OK. Use a ‘free’ translator if you must, but if you’ve spent this much time on the template, then surely you could pay for ‘correct’ translation of menus/articles and use Joom!Fish to make sure people speaking other languages were happy when they arrived?

    Please, if you want ‘other languages’ make sure they work, not just stick a load of flags at the top of the page to look good.

    That’s why I placed you third … otherwise, great site!

    Cheers
    Chris

    1 user says Thank You to questbg for this useful post

    1. anisjolly
    anisjolly Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 12:48 pm #257218

    <em>@questbg 63398 wrote:</em><blockquote>OK. Use a ‘free’ translator if you must, but if you’ve spent this much time on the template, then surely you could pay for ‘correct’ translation of menus/articles and use Joom!Fish to make sure people speaking other languages were happy when they arrived?</blockquote>

    Hi Chris

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I’d really love to get 100% correct translations. Unfortunately, There’s only 1 person developing and running that website and most of it has been dev’d for a non-profit org.

    Most of the money spent has been out of my pocket and I’m also juggling not only a kid and a family / mortgage / bils etc (especially with the credit crunch) but also working full time (not on the website but professionally other duties – not prostitution!!) I can’t afford to pay for a translator.

    It’s expensive – and as I can’t even understand any other language apart from a tiny bit of german to 100% fluent english – I had no alternative but to use GTranslate.

    I guess I’ll take off the translator if that’s the reason why no-one’s voting.

    Mind you – i have constantly been syaing the site is still work in progress hence lots of changes still taking place.

    I’ve removed the language module now. 😉

    jwellman Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 1:10 pm #257224

    I’m not a professional developer anisjolly. I do side work on a few websites. I have however picked up a few things as the years have passed. I’ve really enjoyed learning Joomla.

    I think men and women design completely different. 😎 While men go for the “thrills and chills”, most women are more for the “frills.” :-*

    The reason I had trouble voting for your site was the menu buttons. It was the first thing I noticed at the top. I just didn’t care for them. I also do not like black. While most men like the black theme, I can’t stand it. Two of the worst colors to use on the internet….black and orange.

    As far as the golfing site. I really liked the header but it lost all steam in contents and photos. Other than that it was a nice site.

    I guess I just vote on what appeals to my eyes and not what goes on behinds the scenes (as far as modules and fancy tools). I once heard the logo design has to catch a visitor as soon as they log on. I believe that to be true.

    As far as those using T-Line. Personally I think the template is too busy. I get lost in the fact that there is too much content, which is strictly a personal preference. If I have to hunt for an hour for what I need… I usually get aggravated and close the site.

    Just my two cents from an internet surfer…

    mfcphil Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 1:16 pm #257225

    <em>@jwellman 63417 wrote:</em><blockquote>Two of the worst colors to use on the internet….black and orange….</blockquote>

    Oh my God my site is doomed.http://www.peacockquizzes.com 😮

    Back to the Bolton Site for me it looks well, it could maybe do with a couple of images/players pics on the home page…and if only you could have a football image as a mouseover on your main menu…because you have altered the colours the black just hides your header.

    Maybe everyone who voted is a Boro fan 😉

    jwellman Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 1:24 pm #257227

    Not at all mfcphil. 😀 I see soft grays highlighted with a blue that really pops. The logo got my vote for your site.

    mfcphil Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 1:27 pm #257228

    I was just paying with you Jessica 😀

    anisjolly Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 1:38 pm #257230

    guys n of course gals

    thanks for your feedback and keep it coming!! I need to know what I can do to improve the site. However, the non-profit org wants to stick with these colours for now.

    McPhil – I agree with you – need to have a few pics on there of playes etc. However, I did on the previous site have this but the photos were kindly donated by the official premier league photographers (action images) for free.

    If you try to do things by abiding by the law then you’re gonna get shafted – e.g. £500+ for 40-50 images. for a non-profit org who makes just over £2000 per season and then pumps that money back into events for members for a whole year – it’s too expensive.

    I wouldn’t mind stealing images from google but I don’t want to end up fighting a stupid lawsuit for a non-profit org.

    However, any feedback I receive, I’ll bear it all in mind.

    thanks and apologies for my rant.

    🙂 🙂 🙂

    cgc0202 Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 1:56 pm #257234

    <em>@questbg 63336 wrote:</em><blockquote>

    I won’t even bother entering it in Site of the Month when it goes live as I know it will look just like the Teline II demo and I wouldn’t win!!

    Cheers
    Chris</blockquote>

    This is not true Chris, look at the previous month winner.

    Cornelio

    cgc0202 Friend
    June 30, 2008 at 2:06 pm #257237

    <em>@anisjolly 63315 wrote:</em><blockquote>I agree

    in fairness – I’ve spent over 3 months customizing my Corona template to what i want it like. (site.voiceofbolton.com) and to be honest when I look at the Teline sites – I feel that the only changes there are logos and images. the rest is the same.
    </blockquote>

    Well, the one I voted for has achieved something else, not quite JA Teline II nor any specific Joomlart template — it has features of the original Teline, the scripting and some features of JA Teline II, and then he used a different Joomlart template to integrate the aforementioned features.

    It is not quite perfect, but among the choices, he did the Best Customization, considering that JA Teline II is just about a month old. This means he has some experience scripting or has experience creating sites before.

    <em>@anisjolly 63315 wrote:</em><blockquote>
    I’ve done quite a lot of development work on my site and integrated lots of different components and modules and also customised them to fit the look and feel of my site.

    I used corona as a stepping stone but I didn’t want my corona template to look like everyone elses. The whole host of features my site gives to users is somewhat different to the other sites in the poll.

    Feel free to browse around and if you think my site is worth a vote, then please vote for it. As I say, I’ve spent months customizing it) and I’m nearly there finishing it. the siteis due to launch in a couple of weeks.

    Yes, there are no images on the site at the moment and that is because I do not want to step on the Premier Leagues toes because of copyright. I’m currently working to agree a deal which will allow me to use OFFICIAL premier league photographs for articles which my editors can use.

    Anis</blockquote>

    Consider it a working site — something that you can keep on improving as you gain more experience.

    Cornelio

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