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[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#143805

There must be a cutoff date when a forum thread is closed automatically. This is even more critical for public forums because anyone who is “registered”(?) can post any response.

I am surprised sometimes how a one- or two-year old threads resurface suddenly because someone has decided to respond to it.

More than likely, the topic is dated already. For example, respding to an issue related to the original Teline advocating for a template (that eventually led to Teline II) is irrelevant especially now that we are already about “to retire” Teline II and about to embrace Teline III.

It is not likely to generate any interest on such dated topic, but more important, it waste a space in the “latest” forum topic listed.

Another issue. Consider this thread:

Discussion thread for “important changes in the JA Templates Club”
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/showthread.php?p=72517

Just consider how long it has become and more significant how many times it has morphed from its original intent. It has become a thread of gripes (what is the latest thing I do not like about Joomlart) or request for help or clarification response that should have been placed elsewhere.

Cornelio

N.B.

When a post is closed manually, it would be nice if the Moderator who closed it identified him(her)self and the rationale for closing the post.

If the goal is to stay on topic, this must be implemented from the beginning. A very draconian way of doing it may be gleamed in the way Coppermine PhotoGallery moderates its forum. No deviation, no favoritism. You will get a stern lecture from the “Big boss”.:)

[Phill Moderator PhillJoin date: February 2014Posts: 7013Downloads:40Uploads:77 Thanks: 917 Thanked: 2206 times in 1818 posts]

#315736

On Coppermine people are not paying customers. While our moderation methods over there may seem harsh you will be amazed by how much work and effort it takes to help the large number of good posters. We get a lot of abuse for that but also a lot of respect.

JA is a different kettle of fish, customers are paying to use their products and therefore everyone needs to be treated on the cautious side whether they deserve it or not. Many questions are asked that could be answered in seconds with a simple Google search but still get answered. People take it personally if you do not take the time to help them and just leave a single link to a previous answer which can often be in an old thread so locking them is not always an option.

When I lock a thread I always give a reason for my actions and if someone feels agreived by that decision I am always happy for them to drop me a PM.

2 users say Thank You to Phill for this useful post

1. Arvind Chauhan
2. TomC

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#315746

Phil,

<em>@phill luckhurst 142547 wrote:</em><blockquote>
JA is a different kettle of fish, customers are paying to use their products and therefore everyone needs to be treated on the cautious side whether they deserve it or not. Many questions are asked that could be answered in seconds with a simple Google search but still get answered. People take it personally if you do not take the time to help them and just leave a single link to a previous answer which can often be in an old thread so locking them is not always an option. </blockquote>

I assume you will be linking an old thread that was solved. If I am not mistaken, locking won’t prevent you from linking such a thread?

<em>@phill luckhurst 142547 wrote:</em><blockquote>On Coppermine people are not paying customers. While our moderation methods over there may seem harsh you will be amazed by how much work and effort it takes to help the large number of good posters. We get a lot of abuse for that but also a lot of respect.</blockquote>

That was an endorsement actually, Thus, the smile. I am impressed actually how much time Joachim Müller spends monitoring the site, and so with the other Moderators.

Once he tried to close a thread of mine. We were able to demonstrate actually, after another Moderator tried it himself, that the database of articles of CPG has become so huge — sometimes you cannot get the most relevant thread that was actually solved. Joachim tried it himself, and he conceded. So, there was a talk about improving the Search algorithm used in the CPG Forum. It was suposedly one of the projects being looked at by one of the Moderators. I am not sure if they made any headway.

I used to participate there more, but I have not gone there recently. CPG is still my photogallery of choice. I use it also for batch optimization.

<em>@phill luckhurst 142547 wrote:</em><blockquote>
When I lock a thread I always give a reason for my actions and if someone feels agreived by that decision I am always happy for them to drop me a PM.</blockquote>

Yes, I noticed that you do explain it when you close thread, and so do some other Moderators. Others do not. Today, there was a thread actually that was closed, with no explanation. The latest response (to an old thread) that I read from the email sent to me today was deleted. No explanation from nor attribution as the Moderator who closed it.

I assume that it was closed because or the latest response, but because it was deleted, one who did not know about the last response would think the closure was because of a violation by the previous exchanges.

Cornelio

[Arvind Chauhan Moderator Arvind ChauhanJoin date: September 2014Posts: 3835Downloads:74Uploads:92 Thanks: 1240 Thanked: 1334 times in 848 posts]

#315782

cgc0202;142559

I assume that it was closed because or the latest response, but because it was deleted, one who did not know about the last response would think the closure was because of a violation by the previous exchanges.

Cornelio

Hi Cornelio,

Please mention or PM me the thread in question, so that we can have a look and put the remarks if required.

We are yet to decide on older threads, but may be we will move the threads over 2 years of age to archives. Also, it will be suggested to archive all J 1.0.xx thread once support for J 1.6 will be in place.

Most of the replies in the older threads are spam… if you try to look closely, such posters have 1 or 2 posts in profile and those are in older threads with promotional links into it.

Anyways, I would say that JA moderation is quite fair and tolerant. Ofcourse, there can be different views / opinion over the same.

Arvind

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#315885

Hi Arvind,

<em>@drarvindc 142604 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hi Cornelio,

Please mention or PM me the thread in question, so that we can have a look and put the remarks if required.</blockquote>

What prompted this this post involved the closing of this thread the other day:

http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/community-builder-template-is-needed/

As you can see, it was closed with no explanation from the Moderator why it was closed. I should have saved the email, but I just cleaned my email box, including all the Joomlart automated emails that I read the past two weeks. Note that in the previous exchanges in 2008, we had a difference of opinion. After I clarified my position, the other member, mmckeen, was decent enough to realize that we have differences in perspectives.

Rightly so, it was not closed then based on the old rules.

No, the response to the post the other day had no spam on in — just very short two lines. It did not agree to the previous exchanges way back in 2008.

I do agree that something must be done, as I pointed out. In light of the responses. I have to ask: If there are still no new rules. what is the reason for closing this old post and not other old posts? What was so unique in this post?

<em>@drarvindc 142604 wrote:</em><blockquote>
Anyways, I would say that JA moderation is quite fair and tolerant. Ofcourse, there can be different views / opinion over the same.

Arvind</blockquote>

I wish I share your perspective on that. A case in point is the use of Polls. It used to be that Polls were allowed in the original post in threads — any member could. Because that was allowed, when I revived the campaign for the one templpate per month, I used a Poll to gauge responses. It was allowed. In fact, it was one of the reasons that convinced Joomlart eventually to adopt this controversial policy.

I am not it was this same thread with a Poll that was closed initially by one of the Moderators (to my knowledge the Moderator was leaning more towards the two-template per month).

I was not one to simply accept something if I thought it was unfair. So, I created a feedback on the closing of the thread, and appended via PM the feedback to the Moderator and to Hung. The thread (with the Poll) was reopened.

In Summer of 2008 when there were so many changes in Teline II because there were so many problems (it required several months before many of the bugs were solved). I used the Poll again to gauge the reaction of members, this time regarding a proposal on how to make it easier to update extensions similar to how Joomla updates the Joomla software — just write over old files.

The initial responses were 100% in favor. The Poll was taken down. There was no explanation nor was there any accountability as to who removed the Poll. The thread though was not closed. So, I placed another poll and posted a challenge to whoever remove the Poll to identify himself.

The Poll response was even more favorable. The Poll was taken down again. But, this time, the one who did it identified himself. It was Hung.:) And he explained his reasons.

Only Moderators should initiate Polls

I explained that this was never the case. But, since Joomlart after all dictates the rules for the Forum, as it is theirs, I have to defer Hung. I never used a Poll again, since then.

Did Hung inform all Moderators of this revision in policy? Are all current Moderators aware of this revision in policy?

If that is the case, how do you explain this recent thread with a Poll from a member:

http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/call-for-benchmark-joomlaart-templates-are-to-slow/

Where is the consistency, in regard the policy?

I would consider the possiblity that this is just so obscure a thread so that all Moderators have not read it. Another possibility is that all Moderators are not aware of the revised policy on who can initiate Polls. Or, those who aware aware of the new Poll policy have not just encountered the aforementioned thread.

If need be, I can share more examples where policies are not always implemented fairly. It is very difficult to be objective and fair. It is naive to think that our judgment and decisions is not affected by what we believe in. A sarcastic illustration of this is the portrayal in Saturday Night Live about how the mass media treated Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama during the Presidential Debates.

Cornelio

<em>@drarvindc 142604 wrote:</em><blockquote>
We are yet to decide on older threads, but may be we will move the threads over 2 years of age to archives. Also, it will be suggested to archive all J 1.0.xx thread once support for J 1.6 will be in place.
</blockquote>

Whatever you do, just be consistent. And if any Moderator decides to close a poll, (s)he must identify him(her)self, and explain the reason for doing so — like a number of Moderators do.

[Phill Moderator PhillJoin date: February 2014Posts: 7013Downloads:40Uploads:77 Thanks: 917 Thanked: 2206 times in 1818 posts]

#315890

On the polls front I am not 100% sure why it is enabled for regular users but Hung’s post does state it should not be. What has probably happened is that a number of upgrades and fixes have been done to the forum in recent months and it probably got enabled by mistake.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#315895

<em>@phill luckhurst 142728 wrote:</em><blockquote>On the polls front I am not 100% sure why it is enabled for regular users but Hung’s post does state it should not be. What has probably happened is that a number of upgrades and fixes have been done to the forum in recent months and it probably got enabled by mistake.</blockquote>

Thanks for trying to explain the possible cause Phil.

When you stated:

<em>@phill luckhurst 142728 wrote:</em><blockquote>…Hung’s post does state it should not be.</blockquote>

are you “quoting” my statement? Or has Hung placed it where everyone could read it?

To my knowledge, it has always been allowed to all members. Some if the vocal members of the Teline group (original Teline and Teline II) made used of Polls up to Summer of 2008.

That is one of the features of vBulletin.

Hung mentioned his preference only as a rationale for removing the Poll in one of my threads. I am not sure if it was ever included in the official rules of the forum. Or, if it was announced after that in the inner circle meeting.

Whatever is decided. All I request is consistency.

If a rule is set, its implementation mustt apply to everyone.

For example, if deviating from a forum topic is not allowed, then posts that deviate from that policy must be removed.

Or, out of topic responses could be placed in generic threads.:)

Irrelevant responses must not be in itself a reason to close a thread. It will just spawn more threads in the future.

But, I do not set nor implement the rules, Moderators can do what you want or believe in.

Cornelio

N.B.

In one thread recently (I will try to find the thread if need be).

One member asked: “Why don’t we have a Poll” or something like that.

Tom responded: “They can just respond to the post.” or something like that.

Tom is a member of the inner circle; if there was such a universal policy that was set and implemented, Tom could have responded more specifically: “Members are not allowed to initiate Polls.” Or, “Only Moderators are allowed to initiate Polls.”

[Arvind Chauhan Moderator Arvind ChauhanJoin date: September 2014Posts: 3835Downloads:74Uploads:92 Thanks: 1240 Thanked: 1334 times in 848 posts]

#315900

cgc0202;142733
For example, if deviating from a forum topic is not allowed, then posts that deviate from that policy must be removed.

Or, out of topic responses could be placed in generic threads.:)

Irrelevant responses must not be in itself a reason to close a thread. It will just spawn more threads in the future.

But, I do not set nor implement the rules, Moderators can do what you want or believe in.

Cornelio

I think its not really offtopic and is quite relevant too, also being into general forums and its going as a healthy discussion. Polls make the forums bit interactive and is good source to assess the generalized opinions. If this thread continues, I / other mods shall move the posts to a new thread.

I shall reply to your bigger post tomorrow, got bit of work to take care of. I have opened the closed CB template related thread you had posted link too.

Arvind

[Arvind Chauhan Moderator Arvind ChauhanJoin date: September 2014Posts: 3835Downloads:74Uploads:92 Thanks: 1240 Thanked: 1334 times in 848 posts]

#315901

Dear Cornelio,

As per brief discussion with Mr. Hung regarding status of polls, his views are :

1. Polls only in Chat / Public Forums.
2. Polls allowed in Member’s Site Showcase Forums.
3. Healthy Output / Non Insulting to JA as whole.
4. Mods / Admin decision on any Poll would be final.
5. No Polls in Template + Extension forums.

I would put a official announcement about the same tomorrow on approval of Mr. Hung (please remind in case i forget).

Arvind

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