JoomlArt Forums 32,862 posts

[Michael Casha Friend Michael CashaJoin date: September 2014Posts: 2561Downloads:1Uploads:32 Thanks: 41 Thanked: 119 times in 1 posts]

#223783

<em>@bigrk 20338 wrote:</em><blockquote>All of the posts here are good and the suggestions are positive. But all I have heard from Hung is that he thought about it for 30 minutes and that he really can’t do anything right now. He also said that he would work two more hours per day. So what does that equate to…3 total hours now. I haven’t seen any evidence of any extra effort and he still doesn’t answer emails, etc.

I joined for one template and like it very much but for the most part the JA templates look like the freebies that most other sites offer. I won’t be applying to become a Staff Volunteer either as I haven’t seen one thing that is being offered in return to these volunteers. I can say after reading all of this that I will probably limit my efforts here to something more like Hung’s which is very little or nothing. Most likely I will not renew my membership when it comes due in 10 months either. I think for the couple of months that I have been here as a JATC member I have more than contributed my fair share. What I have learned is that JA really doesn’t give a…insert four letter word here!</blockquote>
To be honest, we’re actually working on some changes now which’ll include:

Proper Forum Rules
Support Method Changes
Definitions as to what support we will provide

Some thing’s we’ve already changed:

New server
Staff designated to particular areas
Support system upgraded

[eka_template Friend eka_templateJoin date: July 2007Posts: 10Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 2]

#226044

Hi everyone 🙂

I am too a newbie in this forum, but I have been a kind like watching Joomla Art (JA) for over 1 year and just recently decided to join the club as I feel ready and need their pro template.

I also watch Rocket Theme (RT) work. IMHO, these 2 clubs are amongst the best so far for Joomla Pro Template.

I feel that Instantinlaw suggestions are very precious for JA to grow in the future. RT comes with new features almost in every new template they release. I am sure the members here also would love to have about the same features and perhaps better than what RT has. I am sure it is ok to use their idea in your upcoming templates as this world of Joomla template is very fast moving now. What is new this week become old next week 🙂

OK guys, just a 2 cents of my words and hope that JA can come with new features with every new template, it does not matter it is new idea or already used by others. I personally think that there is nothing new in this world, our brain just re-invent it, otherwise, this existence is also new every moment and the fact is not 🙂

My suggestion: look at how Japan grow in electronic world. They copied everything first and then modify and come with better idea 🙂

Love you all guys and happy to share with you here.

Eka

[instantinlaw Friend instantinlawJoin date: February 2007Posts: 1646Downloads:6Uploads:28 Thanks: 68 Thanked: 210 times in 62 posts]

#226057

eka_template;23149Hi everyone 🙂

I am too a newbie in this forum, but I have been a kind like watching Joomla Art (JA) for over 1 year and just recently decided to join the club as I feel ready and need their pro template.

I also watch Rocket Theme (RT) work. IMHO, these 2 clubs are amongst the best so far for Joomla Pro Template.

I feel that Instantinlaw suggestions are very precious for JA to grow in the future. RT comes with new features almost in every new template they release. I am sure the members here also would love to have about the same features and perhaps better than what RT has. I am sure it is ok to use their idea in your upcoming templates as this world of Joomla template is very fast moving now. What is new this week become old next week 🙂

OK guys, just a 2 cents of my words and hope that JA can come with new features with every new template, it does not matter it is new idea or already used by others. I personally think that there is nothing new in this world, our brain just re-invent it, otherwise, this existence is also new every moment and the fact is not 🙂

My suggestion: look at how Japan grow in electronic world. They copied everything first and then modify and come with better idea 🙂

Love you all guys and happy to share with you here.

Eka

Thank you for your comments Eka,
JA has taken positave steps in the right direction since this thread was started, including, but not limited to taking on more moderators, and adding a new tutorials site.
I think you will be very happy with the planned changes here, and I hope you will stay a long time. 🙂

[zeonred Friend zeonredJoin date: March 2007Posts: 4Downloads:0Uploads:0]

#226071

All in all this was probably the best thread I have come across on any forum, it started off well and the end result will hopefully be to the satisfaction of the majority, well done all who posted with ideas and positive comments to the debate to help resolve this issue.:)

[eka_template Friend eka_templateJoin date: July 2007Posts: 10Downloads:0Uploads:1 Thanks: 2]

#226074

That is true ZeonRed. It started with good intention by Instantinlaw and then JA reply with positive motivation to get their member Love back. Then it is now up to the action. I can feel there is Love in this discussion so that is why this discussion feels good to you right 🙂

That is why we are all as part of the JA community need to help each other. This club will lost its love and light whenever the member left the club and losing interest.

So, let’s keep the love and light of the group high and brighter 🙂 JA is Art and Art is about feeling and love anyway right 🙂

Enjoy sharing with you all 🙂
Eka

[jackdow Friend jackdowJoin date: September 2006Posts: 13Downloads:0Uploads:0]

#226150

I should be doing other things but can’t resist joining in because I think the whole Joomla project and not only JA is entering a crisis period. My membership is coming up for first renewal and I will probably renew, but only in order to consult the forums! I don’t want two new templates a month, or even one, and doubt if many other members do, unless they are commercial website developers. Actually what I really want is the opposite of what my mate ShannonN thinks I should want. The whole history of technological change (in which I have lectured for many years) is that the innovation which requires the least input from the human being (physical or cognitive) is the one that will survive and dominate. So if you tell people they must learn Joomla and css etc etc the project will never fly beyond ‘geekdom’. Maybe that is what the OS community wants!? What is wanted are a very few ‘Killer Templates’ that enable the user to customise to their heart’s content, using carefully documented instructions (and ideally drag and drop!). (Menalto has been helping me achieves something a tiny bit like this.) I can see that groups trying to develop a ‘business model’ with a guaranteed income and continuous outlet for their creative talents won’t like this, but it is clearly the future in my opinion. JA will either be one of the one ot two who develop a successful KT and survive or…..not. So evertyhing about testing and support in this thread applies but in the context of a radicalty different and deeper diagnosis of the problem.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#226186

I am very new here myself, and just joined this morning but was a bit dissappointed when I could not readily find some of the stuff I was looking for.

And, I cannot claim that I really know much about the template business but after reading this thread and the others, I agree with the following:

1. Fewer templates, provided that they are well-prepared and quite innovative, will have more lasting impact than gazillion templates. One of the reasons why I have not joined for a long time in any template clubs is that I really need only one or two templates that are good and that will be made better with time.

2. Indeed, my first reaction when I first came here is where are the staff, instead of well-intentioned Moderators, who might not really know the answers to the questions. I have just bought my license for the iJoomla Magazine (they do not have a forum by the way, and that sucks) but in three days, at least three different staff have already helped me, including the founder herself. So far, what they have done for me would have already costs more than $400 from the cost structure of Joomla Art, for technical help.

Their Magazine and News Portal might not be perfect yet, but the fact that they were willing to innovate tailored to my needs and suggestions — for example they would incorporate features of their Magazine to the News Portal in the next few weeks.

Such active interaction of the staff is heartening.

3. From the perspective of collaborative sites, I agree that the trend must be to develop templates that will make it easy for “contributors” to use (without being simply WYSIWYG types) but without sacrificing the elegance and technological innovations that are not possible with simple WYSIWYG templates. There are many good open source software around, but they were meant more for tech-geeks than the ordinary people both to use and to manage.

In the end by making it easy on the contributors (through more innovative scripting, a true separation of the content and layout), it would mean less work for site administrators and publishers.

4. From my own perspectives, with no webdesign and scripting training or experience, while some here might not see the elegance included in the login and “members area” included in the JA Teline — I found them quite practical and address very important issues.

For example the ability to collapse or expand the page or fill the screen, without much sacrifice in the overall layout. and appearance of the page was more than $70 for me (the cost of 1-year registration.

The economy in space that resulted from the innovative hiding (rather than simple collapse of navigation modules) are space savers that I have been searching. These innovations are more important to me than more templates, and templates with all those colors that appeal only at first glance.

5. Now, to take the side of the staff a bit. Let us be realistic. 10,000 members (which has not be reached yet) x $70 per year is only $700,000. Considering the high cost of hiring really innovative people, that is not much money to be splurging on drastically expanding the staff, as some of members wish. That do not take into account other expenses. It is true that the members must not be left to themselves but let us be realistic with our demands.

What we pay for 1-year is the work for less than an hour of your neighborhood plumber.

In the end, what is important is if you believe in the innovativeness of the existing staff and the intentions of the core group of JA. If you do, the members must be willing to help in anyway they can to help in the collaborative endeavor.

Cornelio

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#226187

On Proper Forum Rules

Indeed that there are rules to be followed in the Forum. However, I was really disappointed by the policy that goes this way:

“Since you are no longer a member, you no longer have the right to ask questions and expect an answer.”

I shall try to find the thread, but the focus more was “How did you get hold of the template if you are no longer a member?”

Duh!!! You do not cease to have the right to use the template even if you do not renew your membership from what I gathered from my reading of the TOS.

One post was actually closed by a Moderator simply because of the aforementioned policy. Such policy is pigheaded and counterproductive.

To begin with, I came across the thread because I was asking the same questions and had it been answered, it would have saved me time from posting some questions and for others responding, and for me to be searching further.

If the staff truly believe in the misguided policy being discussed here, then they should just close the site to non-paying members. But, that is even worse. The way such questions should be taken is that any question asked is indicative of how clear the documentation provided or lack thereof. Questions asked are also good sources of what might result as innovative ideas even if that was not the original intent of the one who asked the question.

Cornelio

[swemmel Friend swemmelJoin date: February 2006Posts: 794Downloads:34Uploads:53 Thanks: 36 Thanked: 64 times in 1 posts]

#226190

cgc0202;23325On Proper Forum Rules

Indeed that there are rules to be followed in the Forum. However, I was really disappointed by the policy that goes this way:

“Since you are no longer a member, you no longer have the right to ask questions and expect an answer.”

I shall try to find the thread, but the focus more was “How did you get hold of the template if you are no longer a member?”

Duh!!! You do not cease to have the right to use the template even if you do not renew your membership from what I gathered from my reading of the TOS.

One post was actually closed by a Moderator simply because of the aforementioned policy. Such policy is pigheaded and counterproductive.

To begin with, I came across the thread because I was asking the same questions and had it been answered, it would have saved me time from posting some questions and for others responding, and for me to be searching further.

If the staff truly believe in the misguided policy being discussed here, then they should just close the site to non-paying members. But, that is even worse. The way such questions should be taken is that any question asked is indicative of how clear the documentation provided or lack thereof. Questions asked are also good sources of what might result as innovative ideas even if that was not the original intent of the one who asked the question.

Cornelio

Hi Cornelio,

The fact is that people ask template-related questions in forums not related to a template. In that case we don’t answer the questions, that’s right. The questions have to be posted in the templates’ forum, to make it more easy for other users, who have the same questions, to find the answers.

If former members have real issues/questions about a template, they can always pm me to ask the question/problem. First I will check if he is really a former member and if he/she is I will try to solve the problem.

Kind Regards,
Peter

[ErikThorsen Friend ErikThorsenJoin date: December 2005Posts: 1098Downloads:0Uploads:7 Thanks: 22 Thanked: 10 times in 1 posts]

#226191

@cornelio,

I think you address a few very important and critical issues and I completely agree with you.

As for the “how did you get the template” stuff, I have been asking the same myself. 2 reasons for that.

1: There are quite a lot of these questions and from the way they are asked, some of them seem like they have never been on the forum ( though, yes, they could have been members still )
2: Answering questions and help someone who might have been downloading from a warez site is not good to me. 🙂

Aside from that I think there should have been a way of showing if you have been a member before or not. Of course, anyone could just ignore the request without doing anything as it stated in the terms & conditions that forum support ( or support in general ) ends when your membership ends. So if you are unlicensed and asks questions you very well might not get the answers you are looking for.

This policy might not be the proper or right way but this is what I abide to as it is the current rules.

I strongly believe that the only way JA can survive is by listening closely to their community members and constructive criticsism. We need more people like Cornelio and we also need to create “lists” of what can/should be done and why.

Of course, as a developer member ( and paying more than the regular 70USD ) I would like to see more than 1 template a month. That is why I joined in the first place. However, we are a community and we need to listen to all members input and make the directions and take the next steps from there.

1: People are volunteering to do work and help JA. So far I think the responses from the JA team has not been the best. ( or not at all )
2: I think we should have a “suggestions” part of the forum where you only can post how you think JA can improve and some detailed instructions on that. For this to work we would need to know that JA will read and take actions on these matters.

Ok, enough rantering from me again. 🙂

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#226201

Thanks for responding Peter;

It is your show (or perhaps your company), so I cannot change that, but please allow me to personalize

<em>@swemmel 23330 wrote:</em><blockquote>
The fact is that people ask template-related questions in forums not related to a template. In that case we don’t answer the questions, that’s right. The questions have to be posted in the templates’ forum, to make it more easy for other users, who have the same questions, to find the answers.
</blockquote>

You are arguing in circle here. Forum members have no place to post and ask abou relevant template questions because the policy of JA is to allow only paying members to have access to the key template forums — even if a member has gotten that template properly (from prior active membership). The question could be very important, not only to the one asking the question but could also help other members who are not as knowledgeable. And, yet because of the JA policy, you would opt not to answer the question.

Let me personalize it, so that I can be more clear. I joined mainly because I am interested with the JA Teline because I like some of the features. It was through another post of “instantinlaw” however (and not the staff or other Moderators) who pointed out that there are some bugs in it. And, I benefited from that information. I would realize that if some functions might not work, it might not be me the newbie who is at fault.

To relate this now to the other poster who asked similar questions I am interested with and quite legitimate. He was asking only for “instructions on proper installation” that you should have provided to begin with. Instead, all the respondents questioned the right of the person ask the question because of the circuitous argument you raised above. And, by not answering his question, I have to waste time to search if it had been asked and answered — it was not found in any of your Q&A, and your search menu leaves much to be desired.

I am sure I was not the only one asking the same question, because when I looked at the comments in the features of the templates similar issues have been raised.

To go back to my case, if I knew beforehand that you will not be making better templates that I truly need during the next twelve month, then I could have opted for the minimum three months, and spend my time and effort instead with iJoomla to improve the script and the layout with them*** — they offer “lifetime support” and I am more inclined to pay more money there, since it is really the script not the template that makes a site work properly.

My gamble however is that if I share my ideas here to develop templates that customers really want (rather than meeting a quota of 24 in one year), you might find some of my suggestion quite innovative and useful but rather more challenging to implement because you do not have the right people yet to do it. So, I might be waiting for the next 12 months with no real interest with the usual templates that you make. Let us say however that by the end of July next year, after almost a year of planning you have finally come up with the script that I want, I can download it up to the expiration of my membership, 3 August 2008.

But then my membership would be about to expire, and I might not be able to ask the questions on time. After 3 August 2008, I have no access to the template forum anymore if I would not renew my membership. It is possible that I could have quite legitimate questions because of my involvement (i.e, suggesting the innovation) to ask questions that might be helpful to newbies in the future, like I am now.

But, your policy will not allow it. And, by the tone of the accusations in the post that I read, they were suggesting that the other guy might have had access to the template by some devious means — simply because he was no longer a member. He might and he might not have, as I showed in my personal example.

You offered:

<em>@swemmel 23330 wrote:</em><blockquote>
If former members have real issues/questions about a template, they can always pm me to ask the question/problem. First I will check if he is really a former member and if he/she is I will try to solve the problem.

Kind Regards,
Peter</blockquote>

Well and good for the good intentions, but what is the assurance that you will even answer, especially if you have valid reasons of being busy?

The point that I was arguing was that: If it is a valid question, and deserves an answer that benefits everyone, why not just answer the question to begin with?

I have not joined the template clubs as you call it because of this policy of limited support only to current members. To be honest, as some stated, most of the 30 or so templates, and the 24 more to come won’t be useful to me. It might be useful to your developer members who have to offer different templates to their clients who might just be interested with templates filled with whistles and bells because the clients do have not much content to share and camouflage this with cosmetics — like all those time wasting flash intros.

I did not think twice paying iJoomla for their Magazine script and even offered them to pay for the price of the News Portal too, provided they integrate the features of both. Why was I willing to do this? Because they offer lifetime “support” and access to all upgrades. And, if I like their service, I am likely to buy more of their products.

Loyallty and allegiance are very subjective. You will not develop that if you give the perception that you help people only when they pay you — which is what you are demonstrating with this policy that I am very critical of.

Again, it is just my opinion. It is your company, I am just a customer. Do not expect allegiance from me though if I am just treated as a paying customer.

I am not making a good impression to the staff I suppose, considering that this is just my first day — not even 24 hours. *grins*

Cornelio
___
*** I really need only one template for most of my stuff. I can change templates on my own once I get familiar with the script and the CSS

[ErikThorsen Friend ErikThorsenJoin date: December 2005Posts: 1098Downloads:0Uploads:7 Thanks: 22 Thanked: 10 times in 1 posts]

#226205

Hmm.

Cornelio, you joined to get one template and to get it to work with a 3rd party provider, which is clearly not supported as default ( doesn’t mean you won’t get any help at all ) It just means that assising you will not be prioritzed.

I am 100% sure that you can fix all and any issues you might have with your template for around 100 USD over at Joomlancers. Heck, if I had the time I would do so myself. It really isn’t that much you are asking ( unless I am missing something )

However, with 10.000 members all asking for “personal” hacks and modifications it is simply not enough time to help all and anyone with their custom work.
There might be some bugs and problems but I know several installations that are bugfree and these have been solved here on the forums.

I don’t want to go into any arguments about this or that. I am just a developer and this is just my personal opinion about stuff. 🙂

[swemmel Friend swemmelJoin date: February 2006Posts: 794Downloads:34Uploads:53 Thanks: 36 Thanked: 64 times in 1 posts]

#226207

cgc0202;23342
Again, it is just my opinion. It is your company, I am just a customer. Do not expect allegiance from me though if I am just treated as a paying customer.

Cornelio,

It is not my company, I am only a staff/moderator – volunteer. I am trying to help people as much as possible, but I am restricted by the rules that JA stated.

I can understand you as well as JoomlArt. Fact is that really a lot of people don’t want to pay for commercial stuff and download from warez-boards/sites. So I can understand that JA try to protect their work this way. On the other hand I can understand that it will be quite frustrating for people when they bought a membership for a template and 1 month after their membership is expired they have a problem with that template and they can not get support for it.

But I am sure that the staff of JoomlArt read this thread too and it is up to them what they do with your suggestions.

Kind Regards,
Peter

[bigrk Friend bigrkJoin date: February 2007Posts: 1425Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 39 Thanked: 45 times in 15 posts]

#226252

<em>@swemmel 23348 wrote:</em><blockquote>But I am sure that the staff of JoomlArt read this thread too and it is up to them what they do with your suggestions. <blockquote>

I wouldn’t bet on that Peter. Just take a peek at what the powers that be respond to in their recent posts. They pretty much respond to possible new customers in the public forum only and other than the first day of a new template release leave the members forum alone. It is evident by the newest template release that they are not reading the wishlist of current members. I think now they look even less at customers request for help because they have a few volunteers given Moderator titles that will make it look like JA is responding. I said it earlier in another post that they would most likely do this. I really am sorry that the JA owners don’t take more interest in their own club.

[bigrk Friend bigrkJoin date: February 2007Posts: 1425Downloads:0Uploads:2 Thanks: 39 Thanked: 45 times in 15 posts]

#226259

This is not pertinent anymore.

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