JoomlArt Forums 32,862 posts

[bennitos Friend bennitosJoin date: May 2008Posts: 1717Downloads:0Uploads:39 Thanks: 39 Thanked: 474 times in 407 posts]

#313887

<em>@phill luckhurst 140235 wrote:</em><blockquote>By the way, anyone else got an begging letters? Even had the cheek to shout at me with the loudhaler emoticon. It was the poor spelling and grammar that really put me off LOL.

hi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi could you please donate me 600 kredits, I have 1200, not enaugh for redeem? I just need to be in forum to get answers for many questions. No need to bay template, just questions :(
</blockquote>

Yeah i had the same one, funny part was that he was an unlicenced member, users who cant even redeem.

[Arvind Chauhan Moderator Arvind ChauhanJoin date: September 2014Posts: 3835Downloads:74Uploads:92 Thanks: 1240 Thanked: 1334 times in 848 posts]

#313888

mihirc;140202Hello,

What I suggest :
Put in a line for url when a person is posting a question. Non-compulsory, but which will restrict posters like me gaining extra credits. 😀

Provided Best answer should also be administered by the site admins / mods, so that the right ppl get the credit (both meanings of the same word)

As suggested, remove the credits given to thread starters, except for tutorials.

Regards.
Mihir C.

Hi,

Din wanted to jump into this credits issue, as it is complicated.

Regarding “Best Answers” >> I generally tend to remove best answer in case its totally invalid.

At the same time, if i really feel an technical answer has helped the thread starter to solve the problem, which he /she confirms by stating” thank you” or “Yes it solved the Problem” blah blah…. I mark it as Best answer…. Ofcourse its not possible to find and judge all the answers…

It is also requested, if anyone come across a good answer, which deems to be fit for “Best Answer”, it can be PM to any of the Mods and it can be marked as “Best Answer”. This helps the helper as well as for regular surfers, as they can directly see the probable solution.

<blockquote>As suggested, remove the credits given to thread starters, except for tutorials. </blockquote>

I am not sure if this is technically possible without custom coding, I think either its for all or for
nothing. It might be difficult to segregate the Tutorials from normal threads, as technically both are threads..just the container / forum name is Tutorial.

<blockquote>Put in a line for url when a person is posting a question. Non-compulsory, but which will restrict posters like me gaining extra credits.</blockquote>

Someone got to ask for URL to the thread owner, if he has been lazy enough to not include the same in his thread. I personally see no harm or any sort of undue advantage taken by you or anyone who asks for URL. As basically we all are trying to help, Ofcourse, its not possible to solve all the problems just by the URL.

I would suggest :

1. Bonus credits (especially if they are short of it at time of renewal) for regular Non-Mod Helpers active in the Community.
2. Penalty or deduction of credits for Spammers.
3. Disable Credit earning for Non Template Forums such as general questions / feedback etc.. as i see that can be a good start point for unnecessary posts, which can be misused for credit earning.

My views might be different, So would be of others too 🙂

Regards

Arvnd

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#313913

Before this post, my Total Points was 15,805

Please bear with me in the next few posts. It is the same illustration (but different relevant posts) that I did last year to prove that the point system dilutes its power to motivate more members to participate.

Cornelio

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#313914

Belated Happy Birthday Bennitos!

The last time I posted, I did not know it was your birthday.

Cornelio
Before this post, my Total Points was 15,817

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#313916

Bennitos,

But why did I receive two points from you? I thought the two points you were giving out to people were for those who greeted you for your birthday? I got the points from you before I got a chance to greet you. I just got a chance to come to the forum just a few minutes ago. And was surprised how this thread had gotten so many responses. Mostly because of your birthday announcement.

Cornelio
Before this post, my Total Points was 15,827

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#313918

Two confirmation automated emails from Hung??? Or did you give me more points Bennitos?

Cornelio
Before this post, my Total Points was 15,839

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#313922

Yes, I will donate all my credits to date (15,850 points) to someone or group pf people who can do it.

*************************************
To go back to the Teline improvement invitation: In fact, I would be willing to pay a programmer, this is open to everyone who can show good work. We can negotiate the price.

If it is Joomlart, which might be better so that it will help more members using Teline II, I would gladly pay an additional special template fee, apart from my annual membership, even much higher than they charge for Magento templates ($200–300) — provided it is a fully functional improvement of Teline II and meets many of my must have features.

Yes, I am desperate. Teline II is still the best among Joomla news-magazine template available but it needs more features to make it work effectively for the sites I want to create.
*************************************
end of inserted topic
*************************************

In response to the issues about donating points to others, I think this is a good part of the credit system — provided it is deserved. And this must be encouraged. This is the only way that the technical support in the Forum would improve.

As noted by Scotty and Phil, they got busy and more important they might have gotten “burned out” like I did. There are a number of people I tried to help. And, when they kept on asking questions, I tried to explain the basics so that if they learn them, they coulld do similar modifications on their own — like doing simple CSS and layout related modifications. The latter must comprise about 50-80% of the questions in the Teline II forum, for example. Maybe even higher.

When there was a decrease in the “activity” of Scotty, as he intimated, and Phil, and perhaps others among the top helpers, I noticed a number of people grumbling again about poor support.

Recently, I seldom see the Joomlart staff members and Moderators who used to be helping quite a bit.

Cornelio
Before this post, my Total Points was 15,851

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#313926

and what should be given priority so that it becomes more effective. If it becomes more effective.

[Note that if spaced out in a thread, or distributed responses in different threads, the above responses #s 33-37 are no different from the other responses here coming from others. So they are legitimate, not spamming.

If I am not mistaken, a Thank you, gets about 10 points(???). As shown above, I got almost the same 10 points (see total points indicated in 34 and 35), just for thanking Bennitos. Is this really effective way of doing it?

The credit point system must proportionately reward actions that deserve more credits.

If this is done, assuming a truly deserved Thank you deserves 10 points, then Post #35 must get just one point or no points at all (see note below).

Perhaps, a better reform of the credit system in regard crediting a “Thank you”, would be a basic dditional credit of 10 points (current system?). This will be automatic. But, designated Moderators, may add more points 10-100pts, depending on the impact of the help done. (this obviously will be manual).

A rough illustration

A member who responds by referring a solution to original post that provided a solution to the problem may get an additional 10points (on top of the basic Thank you point)

On the other hand, the original post that provided an in depth answer, and was the original post to provide the answer solving the same or similar problem would get 30-50 points (or higher)

This higher credit points depending of the extent or significance of the help, may encourage more members to participate helping other members.

For the latter to work however more consistently, rather than at the discretion of individual Moderators, the criteria for giving the extra points must be more transparent.

If these actions are recognized and duly rewarded, it may encourage more members to help other members. Such outcome

1. will benefit not only the members needing help
2. it will also distribute the burden of helping other members who truly need help
3. the latter will minimize “burn out” among members who have been most helpful
4. and most important, with more members helping other members, this will reduce the burden on Joomlart staff to deploy more staff to deal with technical support

Cornelio
Before this post, my Total Points was 15,863

*************************
I think that must be the reason of what Bennitos was doing when he gave everyone 2 points, in response the alternative modification I suggested to the reform of the credit system he suggested. Am I close Bennnitos? One other possibility I could think of is that you have a dry sense of humor that might have been lost in others who might have missed our prior exchange.

And of course, you might really have been thanking them for greeting you on your birthday — but that would have precluded me among those who you have given credits. And I got two different credits. So, I was more inclined to discount this possibility.
*************************

[mihirc Friend mihircJoin date: December 2008Posts: 597Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 62 Thanked: 95 times in 39 posts]

#313928

<em>@cgc0202 140285 wrote:</em><blockquote>Yes, I will donate all my credits to date (15,850 points) to someone or group pf people who can do it.

*************************************
To go back to the Teline improvement invitation: In fact, I would be willing to pay a programmer, this is open to everyone who can show good work. We can negotiate the price.

If it is Joomlart, which might be better so that it will help more members using Teline II, I would gladly pay an additional special template fee, apart from my annual membership, even much higher than they charge for Magento templates ($200–300) — provided it is a fully functional improvement of Teline II and meets many of my must have features.

Yes, I am desperate. Teline II is still the best among Joomla news-magazine template available but it needs more features to make it work effectively for the sites I want to create.
*************************************
end of inserted topic
*************************************

In response to the issues about donating points to others, I think this is a good part of the credit system — provided it is deserved. And this must be encouraged. This is the only way that the technical support in the Forum would improve.

As noted by Scotty and Phil, they got busy and more important they might have gotten “burned out” like I did. There are a number of people I tried to help. And, when they kept on asking questions, I tried to explain the basics so that if they learn them, they coulld do similar modifications on their own — like doing simple CSS and layout related modifications. The latter must comprise about 50-80% of the questions in the Teline II forum, for example. Maybe even higher.

When there was a decrease in the “activity” of Scotty, as he intimated, and Phil, and perhaps others among the top helpers, I noticed a number of people grumbling again about poor support.

Recently, I seldom see the Joomlart staff members and Moderators who used to be helping quite a bit.

Cornelio
Before this post, my Total Points was 15,851</blockquote>

Hello,

Since I have been badly hit by recession as well, I am having lot of time on my hands to do this stuff!! i.e. helping on the forums. 🙂

Anyways, I would love to work on the JA Teline template to implement new features requested by many. I (think) there might be copyright issues involved if we are working on a small fork, and releasing to do community.

I do not expect any cash / credit for the same, as it will make me give back something to the community.

As far as my last message was concerned! Lets say, i am back 🙂

Anyways, back to the points system, and I think that the problem is the system is currently very case sensitive and based on individuals. For example, like in the earlier attached image, that even when you get PM’s and you thank someone you get credits.

I dunno if this is something that should be. Reason being I can just go to every single thread and keep on clicking the Thank You Button 🙂 As i said, I have loads of time on my hand.

But to be frank, I do take my words back, because now (i think) I understand the credit system.

Regards,
Mihir Chhatre.

[scotty Friend scottyJoin date: March 2008Posts: 2339Downloads:0Uploads:13 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 827 times in 595 posts]

#313933

Cornelio I think you are over analyzing the whole thing.

It’s a feature Joomlart put in place to encourage users to be more active on the forum. I don’t think there’s many users who gain redemption by seeking support and if one or two do… who really cares?

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#313946

Scotty,

We are looking at things at different angles again. A

And please answer this directly: Should a truly deserved “Thank you” receive the same credit as a “oneliner post”?

I remember you helping me in one issue where it took you more than a day (maybe several hours of actual work on it to help me. Once it took me almost two days to help someone also. I had to download the template, install it, recreate his problem, and then explained why he was getting what, and how to solve it. He was thankful alright, because it was a commercial online paper. I requested help from him also because he did something with his template that I did not know how to do, at the time. What did I get in response to my reuest? Nothing. He did not even bother to answer me. That was the last time I heard from the guy.

As I stated also, there is one member I know whose posts were mainly asking for help, and not helping many people (6 thanks for more than a year) but got more than enough points to redeem for a regular membership.

Is this what you really want to happen?

If this outcome of the credit system is OK with you, then I can see the reason why you think I am overanalyzing stuff.

There is no need to help each other, just keep on asking for help, or post nonsense, and you will get free membership. To prove this point again, as I have done more than a year ago. In a few hours, I was able to demonstrate above that I could earn almost 100 points — with no one being helped by these posts.

Points earned just arguing with you and others.:)

Is this what Joomlart intended to happen when they had the credit system enacted?

If you do not see this point, we will not see each other eye-to-eye on this.

Last year, I think Joomlart had almost 15,000 paid members (or getting there). Some were speculating Joomlart was earning more than a million dollars, so they should hire more staff to maintain the two template per month. Others went to the extent that Joomlart must be greedy, a charge echoed again recently.

Look at the total membership now. I hope it was mainly due to the world economic collapse. More than likely, as echoed elsewhere, they did not like the shif to one template per month. However, I know also quite a few of the members left, or did not renew their membership because of the dismal status here in the forum. They were not getting any help, even if they were helping others.

This credit system was supposed to partly solve the problem of membership dissatisfaction in the forum, but obviously it is not working well enough — because those who are helping are burning out, for one reason or another. Or, like some of those I knew, they did not get the support they needed.

Like you, I consider the credit system a good strategy by Joomlart. It would save them a lot of money and they would not get too many disgruntled members, if it is successful.

I want it to succeed, because as a member, if Joomlart can devote their time to other pursuits, like creating better templates if they do not have to do too much handholding of nooby’s as you call them, then it will be good for all of us.

First, are the incentives good enough to attract many members to participate?

There are about three dozens members (excluding staff and Moderator), out of the more than 5,000 members have garnered 900 pts and above. Except for the top posters, most of these points by others most likely have been earned by helping others — but simply posting. Where is the good in that? How does that help Joomlart or members wanting answers?

Not enough it seems earned sufficient points to redeem their credits.

If instead of 10 points, members were given 50-100 points for a truly deserved Thank You, more would participate? I will bet my money on that.

Second, some members are even clueless to the existence or significance of the credit system.
If they are aware of the point system, and they have enough brain cells, they would know that they can post 300 nonsense responses, and they will get free membership,

Cornelio
Before this post, my Total Points was 15,875

<em>@scotty 140299 wrote:</em><blockquote>Cornelio I think you are over analyzing the whole thing.

It’s a feature Joomlart put in place to encourage users to be more active on the forum. I don’t think there’s many users who gain redemption by seeking support and if one or two do… who really cares?</blockquote>

[scotty Friend scottyJoin date: March 2008Posts: 2339Downloads:0Uploads:13 Thanks: 76 Thanked: 827 times in 595 posts]

#313957

cgc0202;140314Should a truly deserved “Thank you” receive the same credit as a “oneliner post”?

Well yes and no. The thing is… really good posts get more than one thank you and thus DO get more points anyway. If you write a good tutorial it could be worth a lot of points if you get several thank you’s. Users only get 5 points for receiving a thank you so that’s 1,200 Thank You’s required for developer redemption. That’s a hell of a lot of ‘one liners’ to write!

At the end of day Joomlart is a business. If they thought they were giving excess redemptions away to users then I’m sure they would put a stop to it.

Personally, I don’t feel there is any need to reform the credit system. The last time I saw someone seriously abuse it the member (woohanetworks) was suspended and had his credits removed. I’m sure if the moderators notice similar behaviour again they will take similar action.

[sunrise Friend sunriseJoin date: February 2007Posts: 920Downloads:0Uploads:5 Thanks: 103 Thanked: 166 times in 114 posts]

#313969

Sorry I missed this thread yesterday. I know I am late but I thought I’d have to wish a VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Bennitos. WIsh you all the best. No need for those credits :D:D I’m too late anyway, but just watned to wish you a great year ahead. Take care.

[Phill Moderator PhillJoin date: February 2014Posts: 7013Downloads:40Uploads:77 Thanks: 917 Thanked: 2206 times in 1818 posts]

#313988

<em>@scotty 140328 wrote:</em><blockquote>The last time I saw someone seriously abuse it the member (woohanetworks) was suspended and had his credits removed. </blockquote>

I wondered where he went and why his points vanished. LOL

[mfcphil Friend mfcphilJoin date: September 2007Posts: 2866Downloads:3Uploads:218 Thanks: 211 Thanked: 388 times in 133 posts]

#313989

certain members are still around but like to remain unseen, so they sign in, in invisible mode!

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