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  • Arvind Chauhan Moderator
    #139215

    In the process of replying to the thread at http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/ja-teline-ii-slow-load-time/.

    The reply got transformed into tips to optimize joomla installation running joomlart template. I am pasting the reply from the original thread. Just did not wanted the tips to be lost in the heap of questions. so i am pasting my reply here, so that fellow users can gain something out of it.

    The Problem :

    camillo290182 wrote :

    <blockquote>i’m using ja teline II for a new web site on joomla 1.5

    The site is http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII and is at 90%

    I have a big problem with load time, because the site is very slow. I think that this is a problem of Ja TelineII as you can see in other posts., The problem is ja news that slow the site.

    As u can see from http://www.websitepulse.com/help/tools.php when i load the site i have to wait 12-15 seconds and the second time only 1-3 seconds(because i have the cache active). If i don’t use the cache the site is very slow.

    Can u help me?? I tried also to deactivate the module of videos, etc..the situation is quite better but the problem is the ja news module.

    Can u hep me??WHat do you think about the site??? Have a good template but a slow site is a problem!!!</blockquote>

    Probable solutions :

    It would be unfair to blame the template for the slow performance of the site. After running the site through http://analyze.websiteoptimization.com, The site shows 66 HTTP requests, 542780 bytes of site size and page loading time of 121 secs (@ 56 K). just to understand what makes the site slow, here are some observations:

    A). 66 HTTP Request = 47 images + 8 JS + 10 CSS files + 1 HTML

    47 images = 26 HTML images (user added images) = 77.8 secs (@ 56 K)
    = 21 CSS images (template added images) = 6.6 secs (@ 56 K).

    Remark :

    • You have already removed css images from typo.css and other css files > Good.
    • HTML images are added / modified by user > One needs to reduced those (out of total loading time of 121 secs 77 secs are just for HTML images). Certainly images are going to weigh something > can not blame the template for it.

    B ). 542780 bytes site size = 21378 bytes > HTML + 377237 bytes > Total images + 104816 bytes > JS + 39349 bytes CSS files.

    Image Size : HTML size is 365160 bytes out of total page size of 542780 bytes.> Needs to be reduced.

    JS file size and CSS file size can be decreased by removing white spaces and by removing comments. an easy way of doing it is available online use the following tools for the same :

    http://javascriptcompressor.com/
    http://www.cssoptimiser.com/index.php

    but remember to backup your original files and also once optimized using the above methods your css and js files will be unreadable by human brain.

    Lets see an example of css optimization.
    here is an example css from Ja_pyrite template.css file

    [PHP]/* FORM
    ——————————————————— */
    form {
    margin: 0;
    padding: 0;
    }

    form label {
    cursor: pointer;
    }

    input, select, textarea, .inputbox, .button {
    font-family: inherit;
    font-size: 100%;
    }

    .inputbox {
    padding: 2px;
    border: 1px solid #CCCCCC;
    background: #FFFFFF;
    color: #333333;
    font-size: 100%;
    }
    [/PHP]

    and here is the optimized css file after running it through online css optimizer at http://www.cssoptimiser.com/optimize.php

    [PHP]form{margin:0;padding:0}form label{cursor:pointer}.button,.inputbox,textarea,select,input{font:100% inherit}.inputbox{padding:2px;border:1px solid #ccc;background:#fff;color:#333;font-size:100%}[/PHP]

    There is a optimization of 46.28 % just for those few lines of code. But can you make sense out of it? However, This process does save few secs off your loading time. Remember to save your original file before optimizing it.

    C). Reducing HTTP requests :

    1. Decreasing CSS images : Already done. 🙂
    2. Decreasing HTML images : Difficult but may be required to cut down on loading time.
    3. Reducing JS files : Loss of functionality.
    4. Reducing CSS files : Loss of template functionality.

    Advance Options to decrease HTTP requests:

    Look at the Page source. In firefox > view> Page Source.

    Locate these lines :

    [PHP]<link rel=”stylesheet” href=”/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/ja.news.fp.css” type=”text/css” />
    <link rel=”stylesheet” href=”/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/ja.news.css” type=”text/css” />[/PHP]

    Did you observer that both the css files are loaded from the same folder in the template directory? Why not call them by using one command? That saves 1 HTTP request. Similarly,

    [PHP]<script type=”text/javascript” src=”/uniriotII/media/system/js/mootools.js”></script>
    <script type=”text/javascript” src=”/uniriotII/media/system/js/caption.js”></script>[/PHP]

    Same folder : media/system/js/ this saves 1 HTTP request.

    [PHP]<script type=”text/javascript” src=”/uniriotII/modules/mod_globalnews/scripts/slider.js”></script>
    <script type=”text/javascript” src=”/uniriotII/modules/mod_globalnews/scripts/scroller.js”></script>[/PHP]

    1 HTTP request saved here.

    [PHP]<link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/system/css/system.css” type=”text/css” />
    <link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/system/css/general.css” type=”text/css” />[/PHP]

    1 HTTP request saved here.

    [PHP]<link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/editor.css” type=”text/css” />
    <link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/template.css” type=”text/css” />
    <link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/ja.news.css” type=”text/css” />[/PHP]

    2 HTTP requests saved here.

    How to call them with one command? Below is the example of single command to call the above 3 css files.

    [PHP]<link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/editor.css,template.css,ja.news.css” type=”text/css” />[/PHP]

    Replace those three lines of code with this single code and its done.

    So you can save about 6 HTTP requests by calling your scripts / css files together. If you are advance Joomla guy, you can call them together and save more http requests.

    so you save 4 out of 10 css HTTP requests, and 2 out of 8 JS HTTP requests, without messing up with the files of your joomla.

    Now this will certainly help in decreasing the loading time, but it will not compress your CSS or JS files.

    Advance options to minify / compress CSS, JS, HTML files :

    Remember to backup your sites and files – before you try anything. Some of these components are known to break sites (User site development dependent – Not to blame the developers of individual scripts please).

    Not satisfied? Need Supersonic Joomla?

    Combine all your css files in one file (requires editing hell lot of files to point to the single css file, try this if you can remember all the files you have edited).
    Combine All JS files in one – Phew….. (Combining your CSS or JS in one file each, decreases the http requests by large but the file becomes too heavy).
    Shift the CSS to top and JS files to the bottom of your site – that gives a progressive loading.
    Use of CSS sprites (Yahoo Favourite) : here are the links to know more about CSS sprites and its implementation.

    http://websitetips.com/articles/css/sprites/
    http://css-tricks.com/css-sprites-what-they-are-why-theyre-cool-and-how-to-use-them/

    Its unfair to blame Joomla framework or templates for slow / poor performance. If Joomla or Joomlart are to provide optimized files (without comments or white spaces), then no one would be able to understand them forget the thought of editing them to our taste.

    Will be refining this article…. there is so much to add here.

    wooohanetworks Friend
    #296386

    I have run the test on 2 of my sites using a JA Template and also made the steps you propose to see if it works.

    1. The smal site, few pages, small graphics based on JA Mageia and not really customized, no changes in the css or any file.

    The result is this:

    <blockquote>Analysis and Recommendations

    TOTAL_HTML – Congratulations, the total number of HTML files on this page (including the main HTML file) is 1 which most browsers can multithread. Minimizing HTTP requests is key for web site optimization. Y
    TOTAL_OBJECTS – Warning! The total number of objects on this page is 78 which by their number will dominate web page delay. Consider reducing this to a more reasonable number. Above 20 objects per page the overhead from dealing with the actual objects (description time and wait time) accounts for more than 80% of whole page latency. See Figure II-3: Relative distribution of latency components showing that object overhead dominates web page latency in Website Optimization Secrets for more details on how object overhead dominates web page latency. Combine, refine, and optimize your external objects. Replace graphic rollovers with CSS rollovers to speed display and minimize HTTP requests. Consider using CSS sprites to help consolidate decorative images. Using CSS techniques such as colored backgrounds, borders, or spacing instead of graphic techniques can reduce HTTP requests. Replace graphic text headers with CSS text headers to further reduce HTTP requests. Finally, consider optimizing parallel downloads by using different hostnames or a CDN to reduce object overhead.
    TOTAL_IMAGES – Warning! The total number of images on this page is 65 , consider reducing this to a more reasonable number. Recommend combining, replacing, and optimizing your graphics. Replace graphic rollover menus with CSS rollover menus to speed display and minimize HTTP requests. Consider using CSS sprites to help consolidate decorative images. Use CSS techniques such as colored backgrounds, borders, or spacing instead of graphic techniques to reduce HTTP requests. Replace graphic text headers with CSS text headers to further reduce HTTP requests. Finally, consider optimizing parallel downloads by using different hostnames to reduce object overhead.
    TOTAL_CSS – Warning! The total number of external CSS files on this page is 6 , consider reducing this to one or two external files. Combine, refine, and optimize your external CSS files. Ideally you should have one (or even embed CSS for high-traffic pages) on your pages. You can optimize CSS files using shorthand properties, grouping, and then minify and GZIP compress them to reduce their footprint. Remember to place CSS files in the HEAD and JavaScript files at the end of the BODY to enable progressive display.
    TOTAL_SIZE – Warning! The total size of this page is 223769 bytes, which will load in 60.20 seconds on a 56Kbps modem. Consider reducing total page size to less than 100K to achieve sub 20 second response times on 56K connections. Pages over 100K exceed most attention thresholds at 56Kbps, even with feedback. Consider optimizing your site with Website Optimization Secrets, Speed Up Your Site or contacting us about our optimization services.
    TOTAL_SCRIPT – Warning! The total number of external script files on this page is 6 , consider reducing this to a more reasonable number. Combine, refactor, and minify to optimize your JavaScript files. Ideally you should have one (or even embed scripts for high-traffic pages) on your pages. Consider suturing JavaScript files together at the server to minimize HTTP requests. Placing external JavaScript files at the bottom of your BODY, and CSS files in the HEAD enables progressive display in XHTML web pages.
    HTML_SIZE – Congratulations, the total size of this HTML file is 25960 bytes, which less than 50K. Assuming that you specify the HEIGHT and WIDTH of your images, this size allows your HTML to display content in under 10 seconds, the average time users are willing to wait for a page to display without feedback.
    IMAGES_SIZE – Caution. The total size of all your images is 78288 bytes, which exceeds 50K. Consider optimizing and creatively cropping your images, and combining them where appropriate. Even better, replace graphic text and form controls with styled text to eliminate unnecessary HTTP requests. Ideally each image should be less than 1160 bytes, to easily fit into one TCP-IP packet.
    SCRIPT_SIZE – Warning! The total size of external your scripts is 88037 bytes, which is over 20K. Consider optimizing your JavaScript for size, combining them, and using HTTP compression where appropriate for any scripts placed in the HEAD of your documents. You can substitute CSS menus for JavaScript-based menus to minimize or even eliminate the use of JavaScript.
    CSS_SIZE – Warning! The total size of your external CSS is 31484 bytes, which is over 20K. Consider optimizing your CSS for size by eliminating whitespace, using shorthand notation, and combining multiple CSS files where appropriate. By using labeled container cells and descendant selectors you can target chunks of HTML content efficiently without the need to embed extra claases and styles.
    MULTIM_SIZE – Congratulations, the total size of all your external multimedia files is 0 bytes, which is less than 10K.
    </blockquote>

    So okay, I could do the steps proposed and compress the site, but on the frontend, it is already as fast as any site you visit, with the same size. So I skip this step and blame Joomla and the template, as I have done nothing on the site that would reduce the performance.:) I call the tool stupid as it tells me my site is slow as hell, where it is fast as heaven on the frontend, where 0% of my visitors will use a 56k modem for frequent visits.

    2. A highly customized JA Template with VirtueMart also radically changed and a lot of multimedia applications.

    Well, where it will work for smaller sites, with this one, an eCommerce storefront in development with 6,8GB in on the server (before professional site optimization), it does not. First, when combining scripts and css like you mentioned, the site always breaks.

    The suggestions of the analyzer are quite typical. The tool runs the complete site, like when I open all pages at once and so is the result. While I can browse quickly with some bit loading time, the report shows me that my site should still load while I browse it already.

    The suggestions are quite restricted, based on the perfect load time for a site, like a typical 5 page site with no multimedia and only few graphics. When a site needs a lot of images, the tool still says, one should reduce those to a reasonable number. But what is reasonable? Reasonable in what frame? it is simply reasonable to have as many pictures as the site requires it and increase the server performance, gain resources and not reducing the quality of the site like some people propose, you simply have to gear up the server or downsize the experience and use compression but maybe not Joomla’s default one or some free extension from the JED for this.

    While any homeuser or user of a site like tested in step 1, surely will benefit from this, any larger site should be given to a specialist for site optimization and hometuning should be avoided.😉

    Reading this line in the results, I get the feeling that the test is not real through and through as some tool that tells me to “Consider optimizing your site with Website Optimization Secrets, Speed Up Your Site or contacting us about our optimization services.“….I don’t know!:D

    Arvind Chauhan Moderator
    #296468

    Let me try to explain your views point by point.

    1. http://analyze.websiteoptimization.com is one of the best performance analysis tool. Compare your site with another tool at http://www.joomlaperformance.com/component/option,com_performance/Itemid,52/ . And see the difference, the result are terrifying on the latter. (No offence to script writer).
    2. I personally have never bothered or tried to fulfill all the suggestions given by above tools (its not possible).
    3. The only thing that matters from the analysis results is http requests, page size, number of JS or CSS files.
    4. Judging site @56 K is just a benchmark, not to be taken as a strict standard.
    5. I advised calling scripts or css by single command, combining scripts needs too much of file editing. It works for me and i have examples to show too.
    6. It is immaterial whether your site size on server is in GB or MB, all that counts is http requests, image size called while loading any page of your site. (joomla loads only what is requested not the whole server size).
    7. These tips are useful to decrease server loads and number of script executions on busy sites especially on shared hosting. The guys with dedicated server aren’t affected, but there are shared hosting users who are asked to upgrade hosting plans due to server loads and limits on script execution.

    Shared hosting comes with full compliments of restrictions. Here is an screenshot email from a reputed hosting company (siteground.com) to one of my client regarding joomla site on shared hosting. He was asked to upgrade or leave. The red lines are from user’s joomla site and yellow is what siteground says is standard usage. The first graph is CPU usage and second graph is script execution limits.

    Would not agree that these tips work for small sites with 5 pages or so. Here is the speed optimization of my friend’s website with over 2000 articles and more than 2 GB of images in it and yes not to mention the traffic load. See the difference and its just by editing few css files and basic optimization. http://www.joomspot.net/autofaciles.html

    Here is another link http://www.joomspot.net/crnobelocom.html . This again is result of basic optimization of template and other files of joomla and some suggestions to modify modules.

    To confirm that calling files from single command doesnot break the site look at the example at http://www.joomspot.net/case-studies/71-mbadsrin.html . Have also used minification and compression on that site. Do compare the last two images at bottom to see the difference.

    Further you can check the page source of the site at http://www.mbadsr.in . Have called 4 css files from 2 commands, without breaking the site. No css or JS optimization was undertaken on this site.

    Lastly, for now, i would still reaffirm that one can not blame the template or joomla for poor performance. The joomla and its templates are feature rich, its upto us to use the one’s really needed. I agree not much of users use 56 K connections these days, but server load and site performance do count when you have high traffic. There is always a difference in an obese fat guy and an athlete.

    Had added the tips only for the benefit of users, i myself is on shared hosting, and i know how it feels when one recieves mail from the hosting guy asking to packup or upgrade. Hope it clears the doubts, wont mind showing the results on your website to assure you that these tips work in all sense.

    cgc0202 Friend
    #300638

    Hi Arvind,

    To replace these:

    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->baseurl(); ?>templates/system/css/system.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->baseurl(); ?>templates/system/css/general.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->templateurl(); ?>/css/ie8.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->templateurl(); ?>/css/template.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->templateurl(); ?>/css/ja.news.fp.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->templateurl(); ?>/css/ja.news.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->templateurl(); ?>/css/editor.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->templateurl(); ?>/css/typo.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->templateurl(); ?>/highslide/highslide.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->templateurl(); ?>/mootabs/mootabs1.2.css" type="text/css" />

    I tried this:

    <link rel="stylesheet" href="http://demo.bayanihan-saranay.org/500/templates/system/css/system.css,general.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="http://demo.bayanihan-saranay.org/500/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/template.css,ja.news.fp.css,ja.news.css,ie8.css,editor.css,typo.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="http://demo.bayanihan-saranay.org/500/templates/ja_teline_ii/highslide/highslide.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="http://demo.bayanihan-saranay.org/500/templates/ja_teline_ii/mootabs/mootabs1.2.css" type="text/css" />

    or this:

    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->baseurl(); ?>templates/system/css/system.css,general.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->templateurl(); ?>/css/template.css,ja.news.fp.css,ja.news.css,ie8.css,editor.css,typo.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->templateurl(); ?>/highslide/highslide.css" type="text/css" />
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo $tmpTools->templateurl(); ?>/mootabs/mootabs1.2.css" type="text/css" />

    The last two do not work. Jus the first one works. Am I writing the last two sets incorrectly?

    By rhe, why are these missing in the list in the index.php (in the downloadble Joomla-Teline II

    ,ja.news.fp.css
    ie8.css

    Cornelio

    Arvind Chauhan Moderator
    #300644

    i tried looking at your demo site, it seems you have undone the changes. will setup Teline II on my localhost and will get back to you with my results in few hrs. It has to work.

    regards

    arvind

    cgc0202 Friend
    #300652

    <em>@drarvindc 123501 wrote:</em><blockquote>i tried looking at your demo site, it seems you have undone the changes. will setup Teline II on my localhost and will get back to you with my results in few hrs. It has to work.

    regards

    arvind</blockquote>

    Arvind,

    I have set up six different sites, so far for the optimization. I will install the Community Builder on one of them, and if you could sign up, I can give you Admin privileges and FTP access to change the files.

    This way, we can both see what you actually would be doing.

    Cornelio

    andreast36 Friend
    #315918

    Hi there i tried
    <link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/editor.css,template.css,ja.news.css” type=”text/css” />

    or at least that syntax to call multiple CSS files in one line but this does not work

    Is the syntax correct?

    Kind Rgds
    A

    cgc0202 Friend
    #316716

    <em>@andreast36 142761 wrote:</em><blockquote>Hi there i tried
    <link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/editor.css,template.css,ja.news.css” type=”text/css” />

    or at least that syntax to call multiple CSS files in one line but this does not work

    Is the syntax correct?

    Kind Rgds
    A</blockquote>

    Andreast36,

    Why not try it and see if it works?:) And let us know.

    It did not work for me, for some reason. So, I did it the old fashion way — I manually integrated the most used CSS tags in one css file.

    Arvind has gotten quite busy, and so the project outlined above has not been initiated, as planned here. He has quite a few posts on optimization though. Please share us your experience, if you have made some progress.

    I do not have access to a photoshop so I cannot implement some of the other suggestions of Arvind.

    Cornelio

    jimg Friend
    #319061

    Another thing to consider is utilizing a plugin to automatically combine, minimize & gzip the css / js entries on the page. This way, you still have the commented files but can take advantage of both reducing http requests and size. I’ve used cssJsCompress with success on ja_raite.

    konpatsogiannis Friend
    #509678

    <em>@drarvindc 118200 wrote:</em><blockquote>

    Did you observer that both the css files are loaded from the same folder in the template directory? Why not call them by using one command? That saves 1 HTTP request. Similarly,
    </blockquote>

    Hi there. Congrats for your answers.

    I made some sprotes with photo, i minified css and I want to do the above you are saying.

    In which files will I find these commands in order to change them? I am using Joomlar travel template.

    Thank you i advance!

    tfosnom Friend
    #509684

    Hi Kon
    Best you post your request in the JA Travel forum

    konpatsogiannis Friend
    #509685

    I believe it is more a general question about modifing the php code in joomlart templates. Isn’t it?

    konpatsogiannis Friend
    #509691

    <em>@drarvindc 118200 wrote:</em><blockquote>
    Did you observer that both the css files are loaded from the same folder in the template directory? Why not call them by using one command? That saves 1 HTTP request. Similarly,

    [PHP]<script type=”text/javascript” src=”/uniriotII/media/system/js/mootools.js”></script>
    <script type=”text/javascript” src=”/uniriotII/media/system/js/caption.js”></script>[/PHP]

    Same folder : media/system/js/ this saves 1 HTTP request.

    [PHP]<script type=”text/javascript” src=”/uniriotII/modules/mod_globalnews/scripts/slider.js”></script>
    <script type=”text/javascript” src=”/uniriotII/modules/mod_globalnews/scripts/scroller.js”></script>[/PHP]

    1 HTTP request saved here.

    [PHP]<link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/system/css/system.css” type=”text/css” />
    <link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/system/css/general.css” type=”text/css” />[/PHP]

    1 HTTP request saved here.

    [PHP]<link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/editor.css” type=”text/css” />
    <link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/template.css” type=”text/css” />
    <link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/ja.news.css” type=”text/css” />[/PHP]

    2 HTTP requests saved here.

    How to call them with one command? Below is the example of single command to call the above 3 css files.

    [PHP]<link rel=”stylesheet” href=”http://www.uniriot.org/uniriotII/templates/ja_teline_ii/css/editor.css,template.css,ja.news.css” type=”text/css” />[/PHP]

    Replace those three lines of code with this single code and its done.

    So you can save about 6 HTTP requests by calling your scripts / css files together. If you are advance Joomla guy, you can call them together and save more http requests.

    so you save 4 out of 10 css HTTP requests, and 2 out of 8 JS HTTP requests, without messing up with the files of your joomla.
    </blockquote>

    From where can I modify these?The php rootes

    phong nam Friend
    #509805

    Hi konpatsogiannis,

    <blockquote>From where can I modify these?The php rootes</blockquote>

    You can find that http rootes:

    – In pluginssystemjat3jat3base-themesdefaultetclayoutsdefault.xml (JA Templates running on JAT3v2).
    – In templatesja_hawkstoreetcassets.xml (JA Templates running on new T3v3).

    But, indeed, you don’t need to re-call these http roots because, on both JAT3v2 and new T3v3 framework also support to combine and compress the Css and JS files (available on T3v3 in coming time) into one .css or .js file in /t3-assets/ folder on server.

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  phong nam 11 years, 2 months ago.

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