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[blixa_06 Friend blixa_06Join date: October 2006Posts: 22Downloads:0Uploads:0 Thanks: 2]

#122266

Hi there!

Well this doesn’t really concern a template look, but what I’m aksing myself all the time is, how do you create a new template? Where do you beginn? How many people are involved in developing/ taking decision of a new template?
Do you start in Photoshop with the visual look, and then go further into developing the modules, CSS files, etc.? ….

One thing that would be nice to have and easy to read is if the Template Userguide/manual would be included in the lifedemo. So one could just go online and see and read the instructions to the new template. instead of demo centent, there would be the template Userguide/description (i.e to the Rockettheme)
I was wondering, why there wasn’t a Userguide/manual in the latest template, since this seems to leave more open questions in the forum. Specially with VM moduls.

Best regards

Blix@

[MuffinDCC Friend MuffinDCCJoin date: March 2007Posts: 230Downloads:0Uploads:0]

#227930

These are the general steps that are taken in creating a template “generally” 😀

1. Research your design – What do your customers want? What is new and cool or just cool 🙂 (surfing the net)

2. Do some “crude” comps in an image editing software, I use Fireworks (woot)

3. Play around until you get that design you want and continue tweaking

4. Start coding the main parts of the template, i.e. the index.php and CSS files which build the main framework

5. Code the rest of the extras such as menus, typography etc…

6. Modules :O nasty stufff 🙂 As these are not part of the template, best to leave these last.

7. Write some docs for it 🙂

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#227943

<em>@blixa_06 25511 wrote:</em><blockquote>

I was wondering, why there wasn’t a Userguide/manual in the latest template, since this seems to leave more open questions in the forum. Specially with VM moduls.

Blix@</blockquote>

This is a need that I noticed immediately when I joined. It is especially needed by members who are not webdesigners or programmers by training or experience.

A lot of the questions being asked here could have been avoided if there are more detailed, i.e., step-by-step procedures for installations, revisions, additions of modules, updates, etc. Expanded FAQs could resolve more questions that might be encountered by beginners.

Cornelio

[ErikThorsen Friend ErikThorsenJoin date: December 2005Posts: 1098Downloads:0Uploads:7 Thanks: 22 Thanked: 10 times in 1 posts]

#227948

I do believe there is a userguide at tutorials.joomlart.com??? Even for the newest template?

[MuffinDCC Friend MuffinDCCJoin date: March 2007Posts: 230Downloads:0Uploads:0]

#227957

<em>@ErikThorsen 25583 wrote:</em><blockquote>I do believe there is a userguide at tutorials.joomlart.com??? Even for the newest template?</blockquote>

MiCCAS wrote up 20 readmes ending with Nerine, the latest is not yet there.

[Michael Casha Friend Michael CashaJoin date: September 2014Posts: 2561Downloads:1Uploads:32 Thanks: 41 Thanked: 119 times in 1 posts]

#227962

<em>@MuffinDCC 25594 wrote:</em><blockquote>MiCCAS wrote up 20 readmes ending with Nerine, the latest is not yet there.</blockquote>
Yes, it is.

http://tutorials.joomlart.com/readme/ja-larix.html

[ErikThorsen Friend ErikThorsenJoin date: December 2005Posts: 1098Downloads:0Uploads:7 Thanks: 22 Thanked: 10 times in 1 posts]

#228003

Hah, in your face MuffinMan.. .:p

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#228007

<em>@ErikThorsen 25583 wrote:</em><blockquote>I do believe there is a userguide at tutorials.joomlart.com??? Even for the newest template?</blockquote>

The point that I was referring to are a number of issues:

First: Familiarity of the place

It is possible that the resources are there. But, if you are a new, you won’t know exactly where to look. To cite an example. So there is a subdomain called Tutorials

http://tutorials.joomlart.com/

It is important, obviously. So, why is this link not prominently displayed at the top of the Joomlart page?

WeWhen I was new here, why did it take more than 10 posts, and when I got desperate, I had to send PM to people — fortunately one of those I sent a PM — MiCCAS — provided a lead, before I got a “tutorial link”.

The other Moderators were giving me generic and bad suggestions — that just wasted my time.

And, more fortunately, the tutorial shared by MiCCAS was not the correct tutorial for JA Teline, it is for a different template — but for JA Pariiti. Being desparate I tried to upload and install JA Pariiti — and it worked.

What the aforementioned installation that worked JA Pariiti told me was that — there was nothing lacking with my knowledge of the proper installation of Joomla — as some of the Moderators and respondents wanted me to believe. Instead of helping me analyze the problem that was unique with JA Teline, I was being patronized in a very condescending manner.

So, I had to figure it out myself. The problem itself is in the JA Teline package — not the installation process.

When I compared JA Pariiti (it worked) that I uploaded and the JA Teline (did not work) QuickStart packages, here was what I found to be the difference (in the server — not visible in your computer):

There is no “.htaccess” in the “JA Pariiti” while there is one in the JA Teline. Both have the htaccess-txt (I will discuss this later).

It is obvious that the problem that I encountered is not in the installation process itself, but it had something to do with the contents of the functional “.htaccess” present in the JA Teline Quickstart package.

When I read the content, I isolated the problem. And, when I did the “Easy Install” for JA Teline worked exactly as I have done with gazillion installations of plain vanilla Joomla.

To repeat, there was nothing improper with my installation knowhow of Joomla — there was something that must be fixed that is unique in the JA Teline package for the installation to work.

I am discussing this at length because a newbie could have been given a step-by-step installation procedure — and (s)he would not have been able to succeed because it is not the installation process that was not done properly.

Need for FAQ or Q&A

The above problem encountered could have been resolved only by a tutorial involving Q&A and error analysis

That is: the tutorial should have this in a Q&A:

***************
Question: When I tried to install JA Teline Quickstart package, it won’t proceed and I got this error

what is causing this?

Answer:

[Provide possible issues that could cause the problem.]

One of them would be the “.htaccess” that I encountered. Again, for newbies, it is not enough to state, check the “.htaccess” — a thorough documentation must identify the reason why the “.htaccess” was causing the problem and the solution to resolve the problem.

Or, if the solution has been discussed in the forum, the proper thread must be linked.

One Moderator suggested: That has been resolved already — you should look at the forum. The implication of the Moderator is that the newbie is lazy. Sometimes that is true, but forums are never the most efficient place to look for the actual solution.

The search algorithm of the forum here sucks — you do not always get what you are looking for in the link list spewed. As to wading through the forum. Consider the process involved. If you take JA Teline alone there are 28 pages (as of this response) of the listing of forum thread titles alone — in the JA Teline template — many of them unresponded or unresolved.

If you look at a single thread, a single thread might have multiple pages, and you might have to wade through useless responses. And, sometimes, the solution was not clearly explained.

To tell a newbie therefore to go read Joomla or wade through the forum, borders arrogance and a touch of being sadistic.

It would have saved everyone — the newbie, the Moderators and the Joomla staff — time, if the resolved issues were properly archived, and presented in a more concise but complete manner i the form of FAQs or Question & Answer.

I realize that MICCAS and the other Moderators need not do that, if they do not want to, and should not be doing that to begin with. That is the duty of the Joomlart staff.

It is far more important to prepare a well documented template than spewing out a gazillion template (well 2 each month) — if the attempt to maximize output, means neglecting the quality of the product.

To be frank, while I myself cannot create a decent template, I have looked at the previous templates created here. JA Teline is good, and a few others — but all the rest are just dressed up of the same — just whistles and bells.

It would have helped everyone more create a truly unique template, if Joomlart created some generic formats — then focused on perfecting modules, like the JA News, as a good example, or specific features that would enhance a page.

With good documentation — installation, tweaking, FAQs, etc. — one who knows how to read should be able to follow the procedure, and create a unique template.

I understand there are still problems with the JA News 1.2; and this might not be due to the script itsefl but the confusion encountered by newbies or technically challenged people like me is the poor quality or the incompleteness of the documentation — especially if there are bugs, as encountered in the example discussed at length here.

Cornelio

[Michael Casha Friend Michael CashaJoin date: September 2014Posts: 2561Downloads:1Uploads:32 Thanks: 41 Thanked: 119 times in 1 posts]

#228008

<em>@cgc0202 25655 wrote:</em><blockquote>The point that I was referring to are a number of issues:

First: Familiarity of the place

It is possible that the resources are there. But, if you are a new, you won’t know exactly where to look. To cite an example. So there is a subdomain called Tutorials

http://tutorials.joomlart.com/

It is important, obviously. So, why is this link not prominently displayed at the top of the Joomlart page?

WeWhen I was new here, why did it take more than 10 posts, and when I got desperate, I had to send PM to people — fortunately one of those I sent a PM — MiCCAS — provided a lead, before I got a “tutorial link”.

The other Moderators were giving me generic and bad suggestions — that just wasted my time.

And, more fortunately, the tutorial shared by MiCCAS was not the correct tutorial for JA Teline, it is for a different template — but for JA Pariiti. Being desparate I tried to upload and install JA Pariiti — and it worked.

What the aforementioned installation that worked JA Pariiti told me was that — there was nothing lacking with my knowledge of the proper installation of Joomla — as some of the Moderators and respondents wanted me to believe. Instead of helping me analyze the problem that was unique with JA Teline, I was being patronized in a very condescending manner.

So, I had to figure it out myself. The problem itself is in the JA Teline package — not the installation process.

When I compared JA Pariiti (it worked) that I uploaded and the JA Teline (did not work) QuickStart packages, here was what I found to be the difference (in the server — not visible in your computer):

There is no “.htaccess” in the “JA Pariiti” while there is one in the JA Teline. Both have the htaccess-txt (I will discuss this later).

It is obvious that the problem that I encountered is not in the installation process itself, but it had something to do with the contents of the functional “.htaccess” present in the JA Teline Quickstart package.

When I read the content, I isolated the problem. And, when I did the “Easy Install” for JA Teline worked exactly as I have done with gazillion installations of plain vanilla Joomla.

To repeat, there was nothing improper with my installation knowhow of Joomla — there was something that must be fixed that is unique in the JA Teline package for the installation to work.

I am discussing this at length because a newbie could have been given a step-by-step installation procedure — and (s)he would not have been able to succeed because it is not the installation process that was not done properly.

Need for FAQ or Q&A

The above problem encountered could have been resolved only by a tutorial involving Q&A and error analysis

That is: the tutorial should have this in a Q&A:

***************
Question: When I tried to install JA Teline Quickstart package, it won’t proceed and I got this error

what is causing this?

Answer:

[Provide possible issues that could cause the problem.]

One of them would be the “.htaccess” that I encountered. Again, for newbies, it is not enough to state, check the “.htaccess” — a thorough documentation must identify the reason why the “.htaccess” was causing the problem and the solution to resolve the problem.

Or, if the solution has been discussed in the forum, the proper thread must be linked.

One Moderator suggested: That has been resolved already — you should look at the forum. The implication of the Moderator is that the newbie is lazy. Sometimes that is true, but forums are never the most efficient place to look for the actual solution.

The search algorithm of the forum here sucks — you do not always get what you are looking for in the link list spewed. As to wading through the forum. Consider the process involved. If you take JA Teline alone there are 28 pages (as of this response) of the listing of forum thread titles alone — in the JA Teline template — many of them unresponded or unresolved.

If you look at a single thread, a single thread might have multiple pages, and you might have to wade through useless responses. And, sometimes, the solution was not clearly explained.

To tell a newbie therefore to go read Joomla or wade through the forum, borders arrogance and a touch of being sadistic.

It would have saved everyone — the newbie, the Moderators and the Joomla staff — time, if the resolved issues were properly archived, and presented in a more concise but complete manner i the form of FAQs or Question & Answer.

I realize that MICCAS and the other Moderators need not do that, if they do not want to, and should not be doing that to begin with. That is the duty of the Joomlart staff.

It is far more important to prepare a well documented template than spewing out a gazillion template (well 2 each month) — if the attempt to maximize output, means neglecting the quality of the product.

To be frank, while I myself cannot create a decent template, I have looked at the previous templates created here. JA Teline is good, and a few others — but all the rest are just dressed up of the same — just whistles and bells.

It would have helped everyone more create a truly unique template, if Joomlart created some generic formats — then focused on perfecting modules, like the JA News, as a good example, or specific features that would enhance a page.

With good documentation — installation, tweaking, FAQs, etc. — one who knows how to read should be able to follow the procedure, and create a unique template.

I understand there are still problems with the JA News 1.2; and this might not be due to the script itsefl but the confusion encountered by newbies or technically challenged people like me is the poor quality or the incompleteness of the documentation — especially if there are bugs, as encountered in the example discussed at length here.

Cornelio</blockquote>
The tutorials site is basically still under construction, however it is open for everyone to see. Once more tutorials are added we will be adding links on the site.

As for the issues you mentioned, I’ll take a look and if there is issues I’ll get the tech guys to fix it.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#228012

Bugs must be corrected: Part 1

Part of proper documentation is the correction of bugs. It will cause anyone problems if there are bugs — newbie or not. It is a grave negligence of duty to customers if bugs have already been identified, and yet they are not corrected.

And this is part of the problem I encountered — after I was able to overcome the “installation” hurdle. So, I was able to replicate the JA Teline demo page, Created new articles, edit the template, change some of the more easy components of the CSS, etc., etc.

I was getting confident and reassured. So, I was ready to create my own sections, categories, menus, etc.

Another problem: These time, a gazillion error messages. I reported the errors messages:

http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/ja-teline-read-me-and-bug-report/

No one answered — not any of the staff, not any of the moderators — to provide a solution or at least point me to the proper direction. I could understand if the Moderators are not responding, since they are not paid but volunteers; but for bugs or errors not to be looked at and dealt with by the Joomlart staff is something else.

it goes back to the issue: Why create more templates when obviously there is something wanting in the existing products?

After I realized that no one would address the issue, I had to do it myself. I reported the identification of the errors and the solutions here:

Errors associated with creating “New Menu”

And, in the above, when I stated “New Menu”, it is not about the creation of options in the “Menu” manager itself but the use of the feature “New” to create sections, categories, etc.

My point in presenting this — is that not only has the aforementioned not been considered by the Joomlart staff, I redownloaded a fresh JA Teline Quick Start package, and all the errors — i.e., incorrect file names — I reported are still there.

How do we expect newbies using JA Teline to use the template properly? If the aforementioned incorrect file names are in the package?

Cornelio

[ErikThorsen Friend ErikThorsenJoin date: December 2005Posts: 1098Downloads:0Uploads:7 Thanks: 22 Thanked: 10 times in 1 posts]

#228013

@cornelio,
Just a quick reply. Even if I agree with some of your point, personally I think you are “approaching” it in a wrong manner.

In almost every forum post I have seen from you Cornelio, you use strong words and hars critisicsm. Even if Joomlart people and others shouldn’t take notice of that and still provide support it is easy to “ignore the bully”. If you understand what I mean ( I am not natively english speaking, so… ) What I am trying to say is that usually with a polite tone and being more humble usually works better ( no matter where in the world or internet you are ) I for one have “ignored” some of your questions and support issues. This because I think you are addressing this the wrong way.

In a club like this there will always be people with different levels of skill, different opinions and different ideas on how things should work.

Personally I think that when you pay as little as you do here you cannot expect top notch service and support ( but yes, you should expect fully functional products )

The problem arises when people use different hosting platforms, have different basic knowledge of Joomla and so on.

I had no problems setting up a JA Teline package. Didn’t experience your type of problems at all and never received any error messages for the installation. How can you “foolproof” something for all servers, all computer types, all browsers and so on?? It is tricky and you have to try your best to deliver as good a product as possible. Do I think the support is good enough in here? No. Do I think the bug fixes are fast and good enough? No to that as well.

But then again, I pay virtually nothing to get access to the templates and using a humble approach and by not expecting too much I get ALL my issues solved, one way or another. The forum participants are a great help and must not be underestimated.

This is just my 5 cents.

Support needs to be improved. Whining needs to be stopped as well. I am getting tired of it. ( last sentence here might have been unnecessary but I wanted to say it none the less )

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#228015

<em>@MiCCAS 25656 wrote:</em><blockquote>The tutorials site is basically still under construction, however it is open for everyone to see. Once more tutorials are added we will be adding links on the site.

As for the issues you mentioned, I’ll take a look and if there is issues I’ll get the tech guys to fix it.</blockquote>

I understand MiCCAS, and I was very grateful that you have been preparing them. However, my point is that if from the beginning, Joomlart staff has made it a conscious effort to prepare great documentation, newbies or technically challenged people like me would not have to take so much time of the Moderators.

I understand that the Moderators might not have tried the templates themselves, and that would be the reason why they could not give more specific answers. Each template must have been tested thoroughly, and the bugs properly documented, and more extenseive Q&A must be prepared.

To go back to the issue that I raised and you quoted — there is actually a very simple solution:

Instruction 1:
Remove the “.htaccess” that has been uploaded in the JA Teline oackage just like there is no functional “.htaccess” initially present in the JA Pariiti. However, keep the “htaccess-txt” and convert the latter to “.htaccess” after the installation when the SEO feature is activated.

The only reason why I had to go about the procedure I presented in the previous post was a result of my own deduction, and what seemed to go past the hurdle of being able to actually install the JA Teline Quickstart package.

What I did initially was to “comment”, i.e., place a # in front of the

“Options +FollowSymLinks”

in the pre-installed “.htaccess”, and the installation went through successfully.

However, as it turned out, there is something buggy with the “pre-installed” functional “.htacces”. When I activated teh SEO, it seemed to work at first, I think. But, then when I turned off my computer, and restarted the following day, I was getting the SEO format for the files but none of them were showing — if I am not mistaken, it had “File not found” or something.

Instead of asking in the forum again, I decided to figure it out myself. Fortunately, the iJoomla staff, including Merav herself, the founder, installed a working JA Teline for me — to show that it is what corresponded most closely to the dummy template I presented to Merav and that I should buy. Indeed, when I saw the JA Teline it had most of the features I wanted and that brought me to Joomlart.

Anyway, by comparing the one installed by Merav and the one I installed, I got the notion to try to remove the “pre-installed” functional “.htaccess” before installation, since it was missing in the JA Pariiti. And, indeed it worked.

Now, I tried my old installation. Remove the “pre-installed” functional “.htaccess”, then convert the “htaccess-txt” to “.htaccess” (i.e., with a “dot” before htaccess, for newbies reading this). And, wella — even the previous installations that now had problems worked. I did not have to delete anything else, except the problematic “pre-installed” and disfunctional “.htaccess”

So, if the installation procedure for the existing “JA Teline Quick Start” package must have this.

1. FTP upload the entire uncompressed “JA Teline Quick Start” package
2. Rename the package folder, as you wish, e.g., jate000
3. Delete the “.htaccess” file (see note at the bottom)
4. [ Now, I also change the
• define( ‘RG_EMULATION’, 0 ); => ]define( ‘RG_EMULATION’, 1 );

in the globals.php]

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#228021

Erik,

You stated that you never had the errors I encountered (at least in the installation), but did you encounter the errors here:

http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/errors-associated-with-creating-new-menu/

When I have bad internet connection, I sometimes get some bad files. If I re-download, it goes away. In the case of the JA Teline Quick Start package I made corrections based from my analysis of the above. But, just to monitor what was going on — I downloaded the JA Teline Quick Start package, for the fourth time (over the span of almost a month now — the incorrect file names are still there.

I am puzzled that no one else has reported the same. I routinely download many more complex open source softwares but has not encountered similar incorrect files names — to happen with the same file, if it was random.

As to your perception of me, I cannot control. Personally, I consider the many of my posts:

http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/screen-resolution-configuration-modifications/
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/ja-tabs-modifications/

to cite some constructive posts, that I believe has been the standard way I presented my own thoughts here.

Yes, I may be perceived as “harsh” when I present my observations. I call it realistic. Partly, it might be because English is not my native tongue either.

However I am not interested simply in criticizing — that is a waste of time and of no interest to me. I do not stop there, I present alternatives, or possible solutions. An example of that is what I am doing in this thread. I have no intention of rehashing my frustrating experience when I started here. What I was portraying was the hurdles that a novice experiences when faced with errors that could not be resolved — that is the main point of detailing what I experienced.

Having presented that, I tried to provide some simple stuff on how that could have been avoided. For example, in presenting how I think a more detailed instructions meant for people like me who do not have much experience in the technical aspects of webdesign.

To reiterate: I do not spend my time solely for the purpose of putting down people or groups — if I think the situation is hopeless, I do not usually share my thoughts at all, or leave. That I am participating here means I have not given up, especially at such an early stage.

After all, a company that can create JA Teline, and a few of the templates that I like, indicate that there are some talents in there.

Cornelio

[ErikThorsen Friend ErikThorsenJoin date: December 2005Posts: 1098Downloads:0Uploads:7 Thanks: 22 Thanked: 10 times in 1 posts]

#228022

Nope, never had these problems myself…

[MuffinDCC Friend MuffinDCCJoin date: March 2007Posts: 230Downloads:0Uploads:0]

#228037

The readmes should be chronological order IMO, makes more sense to me.

JA know their problems, just need cracking down on them which they are 🙂

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