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[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#132103

This issue needs to be addressed for a number of reasons.

First.
There are “regular members” who claim that they cannot live with Joomlart unless they have two templates per month. To rephrase Bossep in another thread: What do you need all those templates for, if you can only use them for one to ten domains? And, if you work for a living as a webdesigner or creator of webpages for others, how do you go around the very strict licensing agreement of Joomlart?

Second
The unlimited licensing allowed for Developers is not clearly defined by Joomlart.

Case 1: One Developer customer, decided to use templates from the various template companies that he has Developer license, to provide “free templates” to anyone who would avail of his reseller account to host domains. He is not reselling any of the templates.

Technically, without clear definition of the limits of the “unlimited license” for Developers, I find no reason to reject such use. The use of templates to attract website customers is similar to ATT using the iPhone to attract customers.

The position of Joomlart on this matter, and other situations that a customer may use the Joomlart templates must be clarified in public, not on a case to case pasis. This transparency will allow customers to decide whether they can accept the qualification of the licensing agreement.

Case 2: It is true that a Developer cannot resell a template at any price. However, let us consider this scenario.

Joomlart charges $40 for fresh installation of a Joomla-Joomlart template. The actual installation itself from my experience takes about 5 minutes tops. The download and unpacking need only be done once. In turn, the upload is routine. Aside from the creation of the database and username-password, which would take a minute or so, ten (minutes) would be required to install a Demo page. Hypothetically, therefore, anyone who knows how to read and follow instructions should be able to do fresh install of 6-10 Joomla -template per hour — a total of $240-400.

If there is a demand from people who wants a Demo template installed, one can technically register for a Developer license — and compete with Joomlart installation service. This will not be a violation of any rules because the person would not be directly selling the template. Rather, (s)he is offering his(her) services — even if in diirect competition with Joomlart service.

There are unlimited scenarios that could be created, but there is no need to attempt this and list as many here.

Third.
This brings the automated registration concern raised in another thread, or what is dubbed, the “phoning home” capability that Joomlart wants to implement.

This automated registration can be hidden and can be abused — much like the iPhone can theoretically disable any sold software — even after it was sold.. In this context, the concern about the potential abuse of the “automated registration” feature is legitimate.

Thus, without clarifying the limits of the “unlimited license” by Joomlart or any template company, the Developer customers are at a disadvantage if Joomlart shall develop this policies on a case-to-case basis.

While the licensing for regular membership, are more clearly defined, the current lack of transparency of “automated registration” leaves regular customers also at a disadvantage.

Finally.
While we must be concerned, as members, with the potential abuse of the automated registration, we must recognize the right of Joomlart to protect their copyright to the templates they created.

The potential for abuse works both ways here. To be blunt about the issue — we are concerned about Joomlart abusing the “automated registration”. And yet, we are blind to the potential of customers violating the strict licensing policy of Joomlart.

These two sides of potential abuse must be resolved to the satisfaction of both parties.

Cornelio

[perdu Friend perduJoin date: June 2007Posts: 227Downloads:0Uploads:26 Thanks: 10 Thanked: 20 times in 1 posts]

#265407

We need to know exactly how this would work as it could potentially affect the running of our sites.

Joomla won’t run without a template so if JA’s licensing system goes down then so potentially could our sites, something I wouldn’t be willing to risk.

So could someone from JA tell us exactly how the new system is going to operate?

For me as a customer I need to know now as I’m currently upgrading my site to 1.5 using a modified JA template, it’s a large site so obviously a lot of work is involved and as so far most of the 1.5x templates seem to need upgrading every time there’s a new release from Joomla I need to know now so that I can decide whether to stick with JA or look elsewhere.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#265411

Hi Perdu,

I responded to your other post.

Cornelio

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#265415

Perdo,

I have the same question as you

When the new licensing plan goes into effect, will any of our current sites with ja templates on them be disabled if the domain is not registered..

I have proof of concept sites on some domains that I’m waiting for final decisions on before I register the domains. If they are not going to go forward and complete them, I’m not going to use of my domains. These sites are dead, just mock up stages and are not setup for the SE”s or use.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#265422

Just curious mj,

The sollution:

The most direct solution is to have a Developer license — then you can register unlimited domains — no more sneaking unregistered domains because as Hung stated in:

Answered # of domains
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/of-domains/

<em>@Hung Dinh 72618 wrote:</em><blockquote>
The templates will not fully function on unregistered domains.
.</blockquote>

especially if you simply have a registered member license with limited license. If I hazard to guess, you now have at least 6 allowed domains or at most 10 allowed domains, if you have a 5-year account.

Speculation:

I expect that the automated registration willl be achieved through a new script, added to the Joomlart templates. So, if my speculation that it will be new script, provided you do not upgrade your old Joomlart template (ii.e., not downloading any new template upgrades or new templates

A palliative solution:

What prevents you from using a subdomain or sub-directory in a duly registered domain for your proof of concept installations? They will not be root installations but they will be in conformance with the very strict licensing of Joomlart. To quote Hung in the same thread as above:

<em>@Hung Dinh 72618 wrote:</em><blockquote>There is one thing that we provide license to domains, not sites.</blockquote>

I think we must remember always that as customers we have reason to be concerned with the proposed “automated registration” that would not be needed in an ideal world where all webmasters are honest and honorable; but the real world is not. In this context, we have to accept that Joomlart must do what it has to do to protect its creations.

Cornelio

<em>@mj1256 73618 wrote:</em><blockquote>Perdo,

I have the same question as you

When the new licensing plan goes into effect, will any of our current sites with ja templates on them be disabled if the domain is not registered..

I have proof of concept sites on some domains that I’m waiting for final decisions on before I register the domains. If they are not going to go forward and complete them, I’m not going to use of my domains. These sites are dead, just mock up stages and are not setup for the SE”s or use.</blockquote>

[perdu Friend perduJoin date: June 2007Posts: 227Downloads:0Uploads:26 Thanks: 10 Thanked: 20 times in 1 posts]

#265454

At present without any concrete answers from JA buying a developer license would be a waste of money as we don’t yet know the mechanics behind the licensing system.

For example can you imagine how unprofessional it would be if you installed a template on a clients site and JA’s server went down and your newly installed template ceased to function?

1 user says Thank You to perdu for this useful post

1. mj1256

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#265478

Hi Perdu,

<em>@perdu 73671 wrote:</em><blockquote>At present without any concrete answers from JA buying a developer license would be a waste of money as we don’t yet know the mechanics behind the licensing system.

For example can you imagine how unprofessional it would be if you installed a template on a clients site and JA’s server went down and your newly installed template ceased to function?</blockquote>

My sentiments exactly.

This is the reason why I initiated this post. We as users of the templates must not be subjected to the dictates of nebulous policies that could arbitrarily be changed.

Cornelio

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#265503

<blockquote>For example can you imagine how unprofessional it would be if you installed a template on a clients site and JA’s server went down and your newly installed template ceased to function?</blockquote>

OK, great issue, can we get an answer to this from the JA team??

<blockquote>A palliative solution:What prevents you from using a subdomain or sub-directory in a duly registered domain for your proof of concept installations? They will not be root installations but they will be in conformance with the very strict licensing of Joomlart. To quote Hung in the same thread as above:</blockquote>

I would like to continue to develop on subdomains.

[robandyuk Friend robandyukJoin date: June 2007Posts: 15Downloads:0Uploads:0 Thanks: 4 Thanked: 1 times in 1 posts]

#265539

I dont mind paying for each template I use but I do have a problem with a template that talks back to JA for it to work correctly. I dont want a site to stop working and my clients to ask for their money back because their server is not working correctly.
Also
As part of my licence it says i can run templates on none profit domains for free, how will it know what type of site it is or is this going to be removed as well.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#265548

Thanks for responding everyone,

The uphill obstacles that we confront are these:

1. This thread was started way back on 11 August 2008
2. It is now 15 August 2008, and still no official response from Hung or Joomlart staff. — that is four days or silence.
3. Hung has stated that as simple members, the new policy is that we are no longer allowed to include a Poll to get feedback from other members
4. If there are only four of us here, voicing our concern

Joomlart will begin to listen to us only if there are more who will participate here. So, please encourage and invite others to join in this discussion.

Cornelio

[alliedvoa Friend alliedvoaJoin date: September 2007Posts: 14Downloads:4Uploads:0 Thanks: 10 Thanked: 2 times in 1 posts]

#265551

My question is regarding non-profit domains. How will this new system affect the registration of these sites.

It was stated that “people found the current system of adding domains confusing.” I do not see how the proposed registration system will solve this issue. It sounds as if it is overkill for just writing some instructions with screenshots on how to add a domain to the current registration system.

[ismailmaygi Friend ismailmaygiJoin date: December 2005Posts: 7Downloads:365Uploads:0]

#265810

hi every body
i have the same concern

[Menalto Friend MenaltoJoin date: May 2007Posts: 4736Downloads:0Uploads:43 Thanks: 2 Thanked: 531 times in 361 posts]

#265827

Before this post goes any further.
Discussion for the registration of tdomain:

II. Licenses & Domains management.

These licenses system as well as template version management are not currently inline with the way we deliver our templates and do not allow us to provide the same high level of service to our customers. With the current licensed domain management customers find hard to add, edit or change the license for their domains.

From September 2008 (or earlier), a new license & domain management system will be introduced. You will not have to add domains to the license system.It will automatically be registered once you install the template.
Use this tread here to discuss it: http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/discussion-thread-for-important-changes-in-the-ja-templates-club/

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#266026

<em>@Menalto 74139 wrote:</em><blockquote>Before this post goes any further.
Discussion for the registration of tdomain:

II. Licenses & Domains management.

These licenses system as well as template version management are not currently inline with the way we deliver our templates and do not allow us to provide the same high level of service to our customers. With the current licensed domain management customers find hard to add, edit or change the license for their domains.

From September 2008 (or earlier), a new license & domain management system will be introduced. You will not have to add domains to the license system.It will automatically be registered once you install the template.
Use this tread here to discuss it: http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/discussion-thread-for-important-changes-in-the-ja-templates-club/</blockquote>

I beg to disagree very strongly Menalto,

First of all, the link that you provided does not indicate any change in the Developer license. However, there is a provision there, the automated licensing that can have dangerous impact of the Developer license — especially if the Developer license is not clarified.

Thus, in this thread, I was asking for parameters to define explicitly the limits mainly for the Joomla Developer license. This has never been fully outlined, in terms of what a developer can and cannot do with the Developer license.

Let us face it, Joomlart interpretation of the Developer license can be different from how customers interpret it.

I, and many members, as shown by the responses here and in the link you provided, really would like to know because without this clarification this is very dangerous situation for Developers.

Both Joomlart and the customers must be in the same wavelength on this.

Just like the forum rules, it seems to be changing depending on what Joomlart wants or considers in their best interest. For example, in the original Forum rules — there was no rule that states that Customers cannot use polls. And the use of polls have been done by other customers in the past

However, without explanation or prior warning, Hung decided to delete the Poll in one of my post, not once but twice.

I can understand the Forum being controlled by Joomlart because after all it is Joomlart Forum. But even here, if the rules are changed they must be posted in the Forum rules..

I just read the Forum rules again. As of this writing 20080819, there is no revision in the Forum rules to state the new rule that customers cannot include anymore Poll in their thread.

This is a very dangerous trend, if there are similar hidden rules in the License Agreement, especially with customers who develop websites for clients.

As pointed out by a number of responders, here and in the thread that you cited, there is another party involve for those developing websites — their clients that are not a party to the Joomlart – customer license agreement.

The bottom line, if the developer license is not fully spelled — except to say it is unlimited — the client, and thus also the Developer is put to a disadvantage.

This topic of being more specific with the limits of the Developer license happens to be tied with the new policy that also is not defined clearly. For Joomlart to state:

<blockquote>
From September 2008 (or earlier), a new license & domain management system will be introduced. You will not have to add domains to the license system.It will automatically be registered once you install the template.</blockquote>

only announces when it takes effect. The above announcement does not define specifically how this new automated registration will be implemented.

In the very thread that you cited, a majority of the customers — especially those who create websites for their clients and those who create commercial website — wanted to get a clarification on this

automated registration.

Unfortunately, to this date, 20080819 there is no official response from Hung or any Moderator since this issue was raised on 20080810:

<em>@mj1256 72686 wrote:</em><blockquote>I
[FONT=”Fixedsys”]I am concerned about the registration of domain process and how that will work,
</blockquote>

Note: The font size was from mj to emphasize his concern, which by the way is quite legitimate.

Initially, I defended the right of Joomlart to do this, provided they outline how this automated registration will be implemented — they must clarify how it is to be done, and the ramifications.

And these clafications and ramifications must include the Developer license because as I stated above, there is a third party, the client, who did not enter into the agreement between Joomlart and website developer customers of Joomlart.

This thread focus of this very specific issue, in relation to Developer license.

For Joomlart to remain silent on this issue, and not outline explicitly how the automated registration works exposes all website developers, at the very least, they could lose their reputation from their client if the website they created will not function properly, as indicated by this response from Hung:

<em>@Hung Dinh 72618 wrote:</em><blockquote>
The templates will not fully function on unregistered domains.
</blockquote>

in this thread

# of domains
http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/of-domains/

As important, the above response of Hung, if implemented can expose website developers to potential financial losses, if clients will not pay for services rendered because, as Hung stated:

The templates will not fully function on unregistered domains.

At worst, the website developer can be exposed to lawsuits by clients for punitive damages, in case of critical commercial website developments.

I accept the right of Joomlart to protect its copyright for any of its creations. At the same time, this right must be tempered by Joomlarts agreement with its customers, in order for Developers not to be exposed to damages to their reputation or financial damages because they cannot deliver their own agreement to their clients.

Cornelio

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#266049

because of the points made by cgc0202, any change in the licensing cannot be retroactive to the date of our membership. Any templates we currently have installed should be excluded from the new licensing “scheme”. The cease to function should be only on templates that were downloaded and installed AFTER the date of the start of the new license agreement.

Is there really a potential for existing sites to be disabled once this “scheme” goes into effect.

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